It’s a simple test to demonstrate that your body doesn’t require a perfect temperature to be comfortable, it has a range of temperatures that are comfortable. Part of our amazing evolutionary survival is the ability to adapt. Not all adaptation happens genetically, it can be driven intellectually as well.
Changing the temperature of the environment around you is one of great examples. Humans NEED an environment cooler than their biological set point to discharge of excess metabolic waste heat. This heat is a result of the many complex biochemical processes going on inside your body to keep you alive.
One of my first realizations that the body did not have exact, predetermined comfort setting for temperature, came after swimming in a pool one early evening in Mesa, Arizona. It was 110F/43C and the sun was just beginning to set. The water was toasty warm, feeling more like a bath than a pool, but after my run it felt amazing. I got out of the pool and before I could get to the chair with my towel I began to SHIVER.
This was the craziest thing I’d EVER experienced. How in the hell was I shivering in 110F HEAT? (don’t laugh desert rats)
The human body is a strange but amazing machine. When the outside temperature rises above the point that heat can’t easily escape, we naturally start sweating and that perspiration evaporates from our skin to cool it. In moist, humid environments (like Florida or Texas coast) the evaporation does not happen as quickly, because the air is already saturated with moisture – result is that it feels hot, sticky, and muggy. Conversely in the desert, evaporation is extremely efficient and simply spraying water in the air provides a cool relief.
My shivering was simply the RAPID evaporation of water resulting in rapid cooling my skin and tripping a thermo-regulatory “false alarm” indicating I was “cold.” And there I was shivering in the desert with air temperature at 110F degrees.
I wasn’t really cold. It wasn’t cold outside, but my body sensed and I instinctually responded to the false input. Every day you are bombarded with these signs. It’s why you probably have a space heater under the desk. It’s the reason snuggies, cheap blankets with gimmick arms, are flying off the shelf at $20 bucks a pop. It’s why you hold your hands up to the heater vents in the car waiting for a sign that heat is on the way.
It also causes you to bundle in the winter even though the temperature is no different than the summer in the house, car or office. All this extra insulation serves to preserve valuable heat and allows your body to run just a little more efficiently. By pushing down the exposure over a longer time, you can burn a lot of extra calories – a free bonus.
So let’s move on to the experiment. You will need:
- Three Cups
- Thermometer
- Hot, Room Temperature, and Cold Water
- An Open Mind
Fill one of the cups with ice and water (mine measured 34F/1C). In the second place the hottest tap water you can stand (mine was about 115F/46C). In the final cup, adjust the water to around 72F/22C. Place fingers from one hand in the cold water and the other in the hot water. Leave them there for about a minute. NOW, place them in the room temperature cup.
Surprising, huh? It turns out you don’t have the ability to sense exact temperatures as well as you sense differences. The room temperature water cannot be hot and cold at the same time, right? This is exactly what happened in my pool experience, why you bundle too much, and why you’ve lost the ability to adapt to cooler environments. Great news is that by incrementally exposing yourself to cooler temperatures, leaving the layers behind, you too can adapt to be extremely comfortable being cool. Don’t let them fool you into it being “miserable” and horrible; it’s really not necessary to be miserable.
Is it worth a 17% boost in resting metabolic rate to adapt to a 60F/15C environment? For the average RMR of 1400/1800 (woman/man) calories a day, that’s about half a pound extra fat loss a week, just shy of the three-quarters of a pound of fat to run a marathon. I know running marathons are on most of your bucket lists for 2011.
Some of you may love them. I just wonder who’s going to run one a week. To me, that sounds miserable.
Wonderful Blog! I discovered by accident some time ago that my body temp is lower than average. One winter night I woke up and felt like I must have a fever, I was burning up so bad (nope, too young for menopausal hot flashes). I took my temp, and it was 93.3. After that I was intrigued and took it regularly, and found I averaged at about 96.8 (same time each day), and it had little to do with how cold or warm I felt. My current theory is that how warm or cool I feel is really more about whether I’m shedding heat or not. I really only get cold when I’m still for a long time.
I’ve also found that if I concentrate on imagining my “frozen” toes, nose, etc. getting really hot, they often warm right up.
Great Anne! glad to have you on board. There are a range of body temperatures that are acceptable, but whatever one’s set point is, you normally stay with about a half of a degree with diurnal fluctuations. As for the fire in your toes, you will find that it actually is a real thing. Tummo a Tibetan word meaning literally, fierce woman, is a practice that awakens the “inner fire.” You’ll read on that link that some of the subjects studied have been able to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes by as much as 8.3 degrees. Wim is a MASTER at this and the world record holder (see Iceman). I will try to see if I can get wim signed up. He’s an amazing person and I am sure many would like to hear from him…
Get out in that Bay-Area water and BURN some calories!
Ray
Interesting post, the experiment reminded me of a time I came in freezing cold from the snow and dipped my hands in the washing up bowl, it felt BOILING but in actual fact a knew that it was lukewarm at most having used the water perfectly comfortably 30 minutes before. I am looking forward to reading your blog and hopeful making a few simple changes, I don’t know how easy that will be, I hate being cold, perhaps it’s all in the mind!
Happy New Year!
Great point Mark…welcome to the site!
Your experience is very typical when people take a moment to think about it. The important thing to note is that it works both ways – comfortably cool seems COLD after hot adaptation. Either way, it is the extreme we notice most, not the incremental changes that happen throughout the season. I hate being “cold” too, but cold has a huge range of meanings. The good news is that everyone of us, especially if overweight, has the ability to adapt down and in doing so, there are caloric “leaks” that can be beneficial. Still, both Wim and Tim are going to demand that I do the ice baths, so I just have to get moving on that this year…
happy new year and please keep the comments coming.
Ray
Note to everyone: I found a permissions bug that didn’t allow commenting on all posts. That is now fixed, so if you want to go back and comment, everyone’s input is critical to making this site successful.
Hi Ray,
I’ve been taking a gradual approach to the cold shower. Usually I’ll later up with warm water, then step out of the steam and drop the temperature, and step back in. Once I’m back in I’ll start dropping it even more, So far about 80-85% of the way to pure cold and barable.
later,
James
I do it the same, but can rapidly move from warm (87-88) to cool (82-84) and leave it lower. I stay in shower longer, just soaking a bit. Here’s an interesting fact. In US competitive water for swimming is 80-82F. Public pools are typically 84F, except when their are infant classes when they are adjusted to 86F. Interviews with competitive swimmers indicate that somewhere in the 84-86F range they begin to sweat while swimming. That’s an interesting observation as it implies a thermal neutral zone when waste heat generated by activity is on edge of balance with water thermal load/rate of dissipation.
Obviously sweat has no use in water, but the body doesn’t get that part. I’ve seen any activity + water is increased loss. The symptom seems to be hunger reflex, which cand be handled with small frequent meals. I’ve also used Seth Roberts tasteless calorie setpoint approach and it killed hunger.
OMG. You did SLD?
I did it and it worked really well the first time but my body adjusted and it stopped working.
expensive as hell to keep a 3700 sq ft apartment cooled to 60F. Im gonna buy a kiddie pool, place it in my living room, fill it up with 70-80F water and watch tv in it at least an hour a day. Or i might just put a tin the bathroom and watch from my tub. But i have to get over this bronchitis first, which i got from doing too many ice baths.
Which leaves me thinking… Could you point me in the direction of a formula that will give a rough estimate of the amount of additional calories I burn per unit time when submerged in water? Taking into account my usual body temp, the water’s temp, and my mass.
It’s unfortunately not a simple formula since the body has built in regulation feedback systems. At the very basic level consider that doing nothing in 27C water is 2.4-2.4x your resting metabolism rate.
There are things one can do to increase this significantly, but before those are tried I prefer everyone give tim’s protocol a try so we have a baseline.
Glad to have you here.
looks like an interesting experiment. I’ll try it out with my 7 year old who is getting into science.
Gavin
Did you eat that cookie? Now, go to your pool and don’t get out until I say it’s ok!
Lol.
Hey Ray, I read the 4HB and found your site. I’ve been taking 20 minute ice baths every other day for about 2 weeks now.
2 questions:
1) Is there any time of day better than any other to take a bath? I’ve been doing mine around 5 pm
2) Are there any rules for after the bath? Do I jump out and head on my merry way, or am I allowed to take a hot shower to warm up? What do you suggest?
Cold as shit,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin,
those are Tim’s protocols and I’ve not taken ice baths, so I don’t really know. Please keep careful notes. My guess would be NOT to add the heat back to your body that you’ve just lost. There is probably a residual metabolic response, especially if you are not cold conditioned that lingers beyond the exposure. To give you some idea, in one peer-reviewed study (1982) I have, immersion of just the hands and feet in 20C/68F water while they were sitting in 29C/84F water, increased metabolic rate to almost double over the following 2 hours. They remained in the 29C/84F bath the whole time, just the hands and feet were cooled to 20C/68F.
I can induce a similar response in a cool shower. Take a shower at the 29C/84F mark. It will feel slightly warm to the touch when you first get in (winter only -its cold in the summer when the room is warmer). Now, at the end of the shower, raise the temperature of the water for and feel for less than 10 seconds, step out of the steam and adjust as cold as it will go. Insert ONLY your hands and feet in the water and you will be shivering like a dying monkey in a minute or two. Just hold it there and see. Your heart rate will rise and you will get cchhhatttterrrring cold even without it touching your body.
I’ll have more on this in time.
keep GOOD notes.
Ray
Thanks Ray, I will def try the cold showers. 20 minute ice baths are reaaalllly fun lol.
Will you be laying out any kind of plan/routine for using cold therapy to lose weight in the Blog? Any upcoming seminars/books etc? This is a pretty interesting subject to me.
I’ve lost 93 pounds in the past 18 months – still have 50 to go and I’m hoping cold therapies like yours will speed up the fat loss.
Thanks!
Wow!!! Fantastic. Yes. I’ll have some things, but I’m holding off a while. I really want to see what comes out of what was presented and the members here. Honestly had no idea this many people would move this fast.
Thanks for the patience while I roll this out and to many of you that have helped me squash bugs. I’d like this to be a forum where we can all challenge status quo and redefine.
Keep the comments (and members) coming!
Hi!
I found your site after reading the 4HB and have a few questions. As it’s winter and pretty friggin cold here in Finland (-20C is normal this winter), how efficient is standing around in the cold air? I can easily get to the shivering quite fast. 🙂
And how long of the exposure is fine, can I catch a cold etc.?
Cool not cold. You don’t want to get hypothermia or affect core body temperature. In temperatures below 32C air or 15C water hypothermia can set in if given enough exposure. Rather than jumping into cold, and being miserable, consider less layers. Lighter coats with adequate warmth for head, face, hands and feet. Being cold is a complex reaction in the body and there isn’t just one sensor – your body senses changes throughout and constantly adjusts. Success with thermal loading requires that one stop short of being miserable and adapt to progressively cooler exposure. Just like weight lifting or running, you’ll get better at over time and gradual improvements. You don’t have to shiver, but when you do, it’s clear you are burning calories and they all add up in deficits.
As for catching a cold or flu from low temperatures? That is a myth. Both are caused by viral infections. The reason people tend to get sick more in cold temperature is because there is more exposure to infected people. Here’s a good link to read: Colds and Flue. If you are interested in the more detailed medical anthropology of the issue, “Feed a cold, starve a fever” — folk models of infection in an english suburban community, and their relation to medical treatment – Cecil G. Helman is a detailed at how these myths creep into both the general population and even medical practice.
Welcome to the site!
Thanks for the links and your advice. It’s pretty much what I thought. Strange that such myths still exist even among doctors.
It’s pretty cool in our office and I’ve felt cold before. Today I started wearing just a t-shirt and _decided_ that i feel warm. It worked surprisingly well. This is just a start, but I think it’s going to be a good boost in weight loss. I’ll also have to make cold showers feel warm, I haven’t really enjoyed cold until now. 🙂
Thanks for all of your hard work Ray, I really appreciate it. I’m on day 4 of the diet and things are going great. I was wondering if there is an optimal number of times that one should take a cold shower or using an ice pack on your neck per day. Is two (morning and before bed) sufficient or are there increased benefits by adding an additional session or two if possible? Thanks again and I’ll keep you posted on my results. Have a good night!
Thank you john!! I don’t have a good number. I just worked on the idea that I cooled whenever I could. Showers were cool nit cold. Also didnt try the icepack yet, but will.
Keep good notes!!
I wonder if Ray or someone else could comment on the practice of alternating between hot and cold at a Russian, Turkish of Swedish type sauna or bath house and whether that practice, in your opinion would increase or inhibit fat loss, I Iive in Chicago, and have been going to Turkish and Russian type Saunas or years. Usually I go more in the winter.
The typical practice is you sit in the heated Russian sauna, heated up to 180 degrees, wearing nothing but a piece of a sheet covering you mid body. Then you alternate by plunging into the cold pool that is about 35 Degrees farenheit. The other practice is that you stay in the heated sauna, but when the heat becomes unbearable, you pour a bucket of cold water over your head and entire body, then sit some more until you get really hot again. The places are filled with people from eastern block countries as wells as a melting pot of immigrants, professionals, laborers, judges from various countries and even local and national politicians alike. It is a way of life for most of the patrons.
After reading the 4HB, I thought about going to the Bath house three days a week, to experiment with spending 10 20 minutes in the cold pool. If feels great when you go from the hot sauna to the cold pool. I just wasn’t sure if heating you body to lets say 160% degrees, then sitting in the 35 degree pool for 10 minutes, and maybe alternating three times back and forth would help or inhibit my fat loss goals. Kindly respond with your thoughts when you get a chance.
Kelvin
Kelvin
I don’t really have any idea. I guess you could try it both ways and see if there was a difference…
Thanks. I suspect there are several of the old bathprotocols that will have results.
Yesterday, as I was working from home with all the doors and windows open trying to cool the house to 60 degrees, at one point in the day it felt like a switch flipped and I suddenly was very comfortable.
Driving to work this morning in the 30-ish degree morning, wearing shorts and a long sleeved t-shirt I actually opened the window because being in the car with heat turned all the way down wasn’t “cool.”
Now, sitting in my cubicle, the thermometer near me says 74 and I am miserable.
I think I’ve cold-adapted.
Mike
Ok, you have me laughing as hard as Andrew (btw, when’s the ice bath vide coming -double rainbow man?).
So you can laugh at me. My heat pump compressor went out and only the resistive strips were adding heat. Knowing the $$$$ with that, I turned it way down. I was out when the compressor was fixed and they set the temperature at 72F. Came home from a bike ride and had to open doors and windows….
People think I am crazy on this. There is a huge aversion to cold, but I think there is a LOT of room to adapt to COMFORTABLE in the 50-70F range.
Ray
Hey I just wanted to let some people know some of the mistakes I made in my first attempt at an Ice bath.
1: Initial overestimation of tolerance. I started out trying to get into a tub with pre-cooled water. I found sitting down to be impossible.
I adjusted method mid stream. I emptied tub and Turned on shower hot and cold all the way ( I have the crappy three knob system. )
I took a quick shower.
I then attempted to sit down after turning the shower down to all the way cold. ( with bath stopped so water would eventually rise. ) Couldn’t take that yet either.
So I turned off the shower but let the cold water run until it filled the tub up as much as I dared ( I didn’t want to make too much mess)
I found this tolerable and I sat in it for approx 20 minutes. But still.
2 Not enough or poorly placed ice. I used 2 two gallon sized freezer bags 1 filled with salted frozen solid water the other using approx half and have salted water with rubbing alcohol in 2 gallon zip lock. Alcohol pack residing around my mid-back.
Next time I will use the same method as above only with a second alcohol pack for my chest. I will also have a thermometer for the water and a new battery for the oral one. And I will attempt to get the back alc pack higher and or a 3rd smaller for use as a neck pillow as I found when my neck was re-exposed to unheated water shivering increased dramatically.
I only had moderate shivering while in the tub and this mostly stopped when I got out. My oral temp only dropped by .02 degrees Fahrenheit which is likely within the error range of the thermo I was using.
I’d welcome any thoughts or suggestions.
I find a similar difficulty and I think it points back to measurement and tracking. I haven’t done baths as of yet but I know as for the showers, my body responses vary greatly and it would appear that the water temp would be varying also. Without a measurement standard on water temp the whole project becomes relativity and who knows if you’re doing any good?
I tried an ice bath today. I sat in the tub as it filled up with walter set at the coldest level. This was tolerable.
When the tub was sufficiently filled, I poured out a 20 pound bag of ice into the tub. I didn’t last 60 seconds. My feet were freezing and in pain.
I don’t know if I’ll try this again but if I do I’ll defeinitely have to add the ice little by little.
It was crazy.
Ray is it more important to just drop core temp or hands and feet, i have raynaud’s disease which is to say my capillaries actually retract to the point of cutting off circulation sometimes when exposed to cold sensations … ive done ice baths before but just kept my hands and feet out of the tub and that seemed to keep it from triggering…
thoughts? ideas?
You don’t want to drop core or hand/body temperature. Drop in core temperature = less calories consumed. That is an adaptive response. What one does is drop the temperature of the environment around them to induce and INCREASE in metabolic rate. You will also see in my guide (this weekend) that covering the extremities will help tolerate overall cooler environments, especially associated with physical activity. You would be far better off to heat your hands, feet and face, rather than bundle your whole core.
There has been some work on using Niacin, B-3, L-Arginine, EFAs and Magnesium to help with both the thermoregulatory response and specifically circulation/raynaud’s syndrome. It was common to find references to raynaud’s during literature searches.
Ray
Got a protocol (niacin/arginine/efas/mag) you can point me to? Id love to be a guinea pig.
That combo might explain how i can handle the caffeine in zipfizz vs a monster zero
AbZero Monster can vs Orange Zipfizz tube
caffeine 160 vs 100
B3 40mg – 10mg
mag 0 vs 100mg
l-arginine 0 vs ~150-200mg
I would google raynaud’s and some of those and see what you find. I am just going off memory and I once did a little research for a friend that had the same issue.
keep us posted on what you find.
Hey, sorry if this question has been repeated somewhere else.
I’ve been taking ice baths now (first 3 mins are agony) for a few days, (inspired by Timmy F)
And I just wanted to know what the best thing to do as soon as I get out of the bath is for maximium benefit.
At the moment I just dry off, put on some clothes and then it takes me about an hour for my body to feel like it has warmed up properly.
Is this a good way to do it for max benefit, or should I have a lukewarm shower, or use some other method to warm up?
Your help is gratefully appreciated, Thermodudes
Charlie
I’ll ask Tim to see what he does. I suspect based on reading these other studies, is that you don’t want to shut down the process you kick off by the ice-bath. That being said, i’ve not done it yet, so I am not sure. I think some exercise could be beneficial. Anything that kicks up your metabolism is a bonus. Remember, we are not trying to drop body temperature, only generate a metabolic response. just some simple pushups, sit ups or maybe even the kettlebell swings. Anything that can bring your circulation up.
Ray
Thanks Ray
I had a feeling that might be the answer.
But I do like the sound of exercise afterwards – those kettelbell swings are a surefire way to max out circulation.
I’ve been doing simple experiments with kettlebells while I slowly (and painfully) add meat back into my diet to do full slow carb.
I’m surprised at just how fully one can fatigue with 15-20 good form swings. I’ll post a video soon of the t-bar handle mod my son and I built.
Hi Ray and everyone,
I apologies if this question has been repeated somewhere else
I started using Protocol B of Ice Therapy (Tim Ferris) last week. I usually place the ice on a pillow and lay myself on it, bare back. After few days, I am having some muscle pain in mid section of the upper trapezius area. My question is whether if this is normal or am I doing something wrong?
Thanks
Hello
I am not a doctor and don’t play one on internet. It may be due to the way you are sitting or laying. Typically ice is prescribed for injury (RICE: Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevation), but it’s not always the best treatment. I think Tim always did his sitting upright. Might want to be sure you are not straining yourself while laying in an awkward position.
Keep us posted…
Ray
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the reply. I will try the treatment upright and keep you guys posted.