the facts on Fat and weight loss. In Fat – Part 1 I explained some details about our body’s use of lipids (fat) and the role it plays in both survival and diet.  The most important concept to take away is that you MUST go on a naturally “high-fat diet,” digesting your OWN adipose tissue, to lose weight.  This may seem so incredibly obvious, but if you take a few minutes each day to think about it, I believe it will have profound impact on your results.

Why? because every calorie you put into your mouth will fuel your body and that will result in the part you WANT to lose remaining safely in place – the rainy day fund. You can juggle macronutrients (protein, carbohydrates and fat) to your heart’s desire and still it will not make any difference unless you run a caloric deficit.  No matter how frequently you pay your credit card bills, if you keep spending, you’ll never reduce the balance.

There is a yin yang to carbohydrate and fat and that is why they are presented as the evil sisters of the macronutrient triplets: protein carbohydrate and fat.

As we learned in the Carbohydrate posts, these starchy foods (natural starches – not french fries and chips) are not evil things to be “completely avoided.”  Glycemic index has a role, but it’s far from absolute. Fat is much the same.  It got its bad wrap in the 80s and became synonymous with weight gain.  When we look back in 100 years to the chronic obesity epidemic created at the end of the 21st century, the focus on fat in the 1980s will be shown to have started the health decline and launch us into record chronic illness. It will be our amazing mastery of calorie (food) that will be shown to have caused a decline in health after millions of years of battling starvation.

In fact, once fitness experts, media, and even physicians became obsessed with a “low-fat diet,” the food industry surged with advertisements: FAT FREE, low FAT, reduced FAT, no trans-FAT, saturated FAT-free and the list goes on and on. Of course you and I were lead to believe that fat-free = healthy, but all the food industry did was load up our food chain with simple sugar (high fuctose corn syrup, honey, sucrose, agave, etc…) and processed starches (flour, corn meal, wheat flour, etc).

Voilà, we began stuffing our mouths with healthy, low-fat “carbs” and now here we are 2 decades later and suddenly the new enemy is the carbohydrate. Can you sense the pattern here? It’s incredible to think our body’s entire energy economy is based on blood-sugar and yet the “new and improved” diet experts are now telling us our primary energy source is bad for you.

The Lizard Brain

You see, all of these concentrated energy foods give us that “lizard-brain” hit.  Simple sugars, processed starch, and fats (even OLIVE OIL) are all nothing more that concentrated energy with very little nutrient value. Ok, stop right there with the Omega-3 “good fats” thoughts.  Sure, we need omega-3s and we NEED fat (and carbohydrate) in our diet. The problem comes when it’s over processed, think concentrated and readily available.

If you’ve been reading this blog from the beginning (if not, start here), you should start to recognize a pattern and it doesn’t matter if you are paleolithic, vegan, body for life, The Zone, Atkins, Mediterranean or Ornish. No matter WHAT diet you decide to go on, the way you lose will be a caloric deficit.  It was clear to me after a few months of blogging on “boosting” your weight loss with mild cold stress that there was no way to boost, if everyone was confused about the primary issue at hand – burning ones own body fat as fuel.

So let’s think just a little more about fat and compare it to simple sugar.  In both cases you have something that is relatively unavailable in nature in it’s pure form. Rather, you find it in nature combined with other micronutrient your body needs.  Just try eating 250 lbs a year of sugar by gnawing on sugar cane – knock yourself out.

Your body needs more than energy and perhaps it’s seeking the plant-derived minerals, amino acids vitamins and other phytonutrients (light produced nutrients such as antioxidants) or maybe the amino acids found in meat.  Either way you will note that ENERGY (fuel) is ALWAYS packaged in nature with micronutrients or fiber – it just doesn’t exist in its pure form of simple sugars or fat.

We can go ahead and throw out the Inuit now as the exception that survived on seal and whale blubber. I might point out, selfishly, that they also had an ENORMOUS thermal load on their body, which called for extreme caloric intake (in excess of 5000 cal/day); they are not the healthiest culture despite their popularity to justify excessive fat consumption.

Low-carb and low fat diets are one in the same. Both limit ENERGY (fuel) and attempt to maintain the flow of micronutrients (maintenance) your body needs to function and repair while simultaneously living off your fat stores.

If it’s really that easy,  then why is it so difficult to resist?

It’s that damn lizard brain. Eat. Survive. Store. I don’t know when I might get a chance to drive through McDonalds again. WTF? That is the problem.  Your body is the result of millions of years of evolutionary starvation and we have been thrust into a world of plentiful, no EXCESSIVE calorie.

You know what is even worse than this excessive calorie? You are intelligent and you WANT to listen to all the experts that tell you it is okay to eat __________ and still lose weight. Here is what we can all be absolutely certain of: unless you begin to live off of the fat in the stomach, thighs, buttocks, or hips that you so desperately want to part ways with, no amount of macronutrient “juggling” will work.

Oh, and you can’t out-exercise your mouth.

If it Jiggles and Wiggles – Eat It.

So rather going into yet another scheme to juggle good fat from bad fat or good carb from bad carb, just know that simple sugars, processed carbs, and extracted fat/oils (including meats and excessive nuts) all contain a ton of energy (fuel) and will slow down the rate of loss. Its YOU and YOUR FAT that you want to digest. Don’t screw it up with olive oil and bacon. They might taste good and really give you that lizard brain hit, but it is only short lived. It’s only lasts as long as you are eating.

The reason I enjoy a vegan diet is that I  LOVE to eat and eating stops after you swallow.  I can simply eat a tremendous volume of food and not have to worry. Unlike most “vegans” (I use it as an adjective, not a noun), I don’t use oils (gasp – even olive oil) or  excess simple sugars, because I am focused on the maximum micronutrients with minimum calories and the MOST food I can joyfully stuff into my mouth (sorry – it’s true, I love to cook and eat). Besides, there are a lot of fat vegans and vegetarians. Just because it doesn’t have eyes or a mother, doesn’t make it automatically healthy.

For others you might still be addicted to simple sugars, or fat and so The Zone, BFL, paleo approach or Mediterranean might appeal. Just understand that if you tinker too much with fat (or simple sugars and processed carbs) you can easily over consume calories. If you do, your body will not be teased into burning “stomach, hips and thighs.”

So Fats, are necessary for good health, skin, nails, and brain function, but they contain a lot of calories per serving. What is worse is that one can EASILY hide an entire Snickers bar in the dressing on your salad…or cheese sauce on your broccoli…or the butter/sour cream on your baked potato without you even knowing it. Compounding this are the dopamine hits your lizard brain will get from these calorie-dense foods that did not exist when it evolved; eat more. eat more. eat more…thunder thighs.

Don’t kid yourself, sucking down loads of refined oils – even plant oils – are not going to help you in your battles. Afterall it was the vegetable oil and margarine surge of the 60s and 70s that lead to the 1980s “low fat” products that put us on the fast track to obesity.  Refined oils and fats and simple refined carbohydrates and highly processed starches (breads, crackers, chips, and milled grains) are both at the heart of the obesity surge and chronic illness we face today. The french fry, donut or potato chip are iconic images for me – fat-fried (even the “good fat” – LOL), sugar (oh yes, agave – the new, trendy “high-fuctose syrup”) and processed  starches. 

Is the answer protein? well, we will see about that in the next post.

Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for an amazing year in 2011!

Ray

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50 Responses to Fat – Part 2

  1. Mark Carroll says:

    I am hoping that one of the blog posts will include your favorite macronutrient rich recipes with the lowest amount of calories. 2012 is the year of the self fat incineration campaign here.

    • admin says:

      Yes…working on that RIGHT now. I have a lot on my plate (pun intended) for 2012. Expect a food site…an amazing new way to track your progress (from the inside out)…step by step on cold exposure…and a very cool workout for triathletes (or those of us that just want to look like one).

      Let’s DO it mark! I put on 12 lbs in 2011 (on purpose) and was just unable to get all of my equipment/lab in place to document it all coming off. I am ALMOST done and so I’ve started the process.

      happy new year! spread the word.

      Ray

  2. ron alpert says:

    I am with Mark, please get some hands-on material on the blog in 2012. My success with 4 Hr Body has been quite good, and the ice packs have helped. Now, at 60, I want to run a short triathlon, swim in the ocean and be healthier than ever before in my life.

    Heck, it feels great!

    Have an awesome New Year!

    R

  3. Neil Vorley says:

    I know there is more to come but as we enter the New Year have you got any recommended books/sites you use for your healthy cooking?

    Many thanks for posts this year.

    Happy New Year to everyone

    • admin says:

      Thanks Neil,

      Let me try to BLAST through proteins and then lay out “The Food Triangle” – a thermodynamic basis for food and I PROMISE to get some guest bloggers on here and switch over from from science lecture to the kitchen. There is a HUGE pent-up demand for recipes and meals and I am trying to address that in a healthful way WITHOUT the polarizing politics of food. I frequently post meals on my FB page if you are a friend, if not, add me.

      More to come…

      Thanks for commenting.

      Ray

      • Terrie says:

        Hello Ray, firstly thankyou so much for the blog. I am very new here and also to facebook ( trying to work that out) I clicked add friend there, so hopefully that should come through ok.

      • Terrie says:

        PS. Looking forward to seeing your food posts there 🙂

  4. Robert Burkhalter says:

    so is Michael Eades telling a lie when he states in his second book that he has patients who consume 5000 calories a day and still lose 2 pounds a week of body fat? he mentions them because they were complaining that it wasn’t fast enough. He spends a good deal of time indicating there truly is a metabolic advantage concerning the macro nutrients.

    the clarifying model for me was to eat 2000 calories of lean beef a day and compare the results to eating 2000 calories of oatmeal (or potato chips) a day. the first produced a weight loss. the second produced a weight gain. I think there’s ample evidence that all calories aren’t created equal. When you keep harping on a “calorie deficit” it sounds like you haven’t yet recovered from the photos at Dachau concentration camp (where we learned that if you don’t feed people they get very skeletal). I’m sympathetic, but it’s not something that works.

    I’m fond of saying that if counting calories worked, anyone who could count would weigh what they want.

    you begin to sound like the folks who think that too much fat in the blood causes heart disease.

    I’m willing to keep reading (as I always do) with the hope that you might say something that’s clearly true and beneficial that is new and wonderful. I’m not convinced that you have to get everything right. God knows I don’t. Keep at it, and thanks for all you do.

    • admin says:

      Thanks Robert

      I think the oversimplification of using oatmeal vs lean beef. We haven’t talked about Protein yet, but google rabbit starvation and you’ll find your answer. We also know (and I’ve covered it in past posts) that the dietary calorie is not an absolute number and WIDELY misrepresented on labels. So all of these people that are running from “calorie in – calorie out” are running from errors in our reporting system, not that thermodynamic conservation of energy is invalid. There is no evidence that calories aren’t calories, but there are MANY foods people over eat. When was the last time you had a 3.5 ounce serving of meat?

      What we know is there are widely different adsorption of calories and I’ll be digging into that when we discuss metabolic syndrome (after protein). The small intestines play a big role here as does the entire feed forward stimulation for nutrient adsorption. It’s a complex machine and it’s unfortunate that so many oversimplify.

      What I know for certain is that a nutrient dense, calorically poor diet results in rapid, healthy weight loss. In addition to the improvement in various biomarkers that always accompanies weight loss, there are long term health benefits associated with eating that way. The only two demonstrated ways to longevity in laboratory mammals so far are caloric restoration and mild cold stress. That’s it. They both intersect with the sirtuin pathways by up regulation of PGC-1 alpha, a downstream target of SIRT1. SIRT1 and SIRT3 may also be upreglulated. Lots of work going on with this now, but I’m betting that more will come from caloric restriction than grass-fed beef.

      Calorie counting doesn’t work, primarily, because we don’t measure food and the macronutrients are so widely misrepresented on labels. We’ll see in another decade where the chronic health is…I’m betting not having excess fat in the blood is not going to make me MORE likely to have heart disease. I’m not buying just yet that fat in the blood is “protective” or that we have to minimize our primary fuel source, glucose, to be “healthy.”

      like you said, I might be wrong too. I just don’t think one can eat freely with high-fat, simple sugar, and processed starch/milled grain diet and maintain/lose weight. Calorie counting kept me fat. Switching to foods that I can eat liberally and never worry with quantity made it easy AND improved all my blood biomarkers.

      I *wish* this weren’t a hobby right now as there are so many amazing questions to be answered. As the donations come in, I will expand and perhaps in 2012, I can launch something that funds some of this work, so I can move to it full time. I want to challenge status quo.

      Thanks for the comments and reading!

      Ray

  5. Carlos Welch says:

    1. Foods (leafy veggies) that you can eat a lot of without spending to many calories – Will you have any of these that taste like pancakes in your recipes? If not, I am screwed until I hit a real and permanent bottom that causes me to give up my sugar/carb addiction and get off the yo-yo. What do you think about shirataki noodles?

    2. We know you cant out-exercise your mouth, but can you do whatever it is that Phelps does with exercise and thermal loading? If I could just have half of his breakfast for an entire day and stay in relatively good shape I would be happy. Do all daily swimmers/surfers have to eat several thousand calories like him or is that reserved for those that put in a world class amount of training?

    • admin says:

      LOL… Actually, on your second point – yes. That is (damn, thought I was done with the Inuit) the key to ANY highly exposed, thermally loaded sport/lifestyle. The key of course is not to let the hunger drive you and it peaks 2-4 hours after exposure.

      Here is a self experiment you can try – do 6 weeks of strict nutrient dense, calorically poor food (low in refined oils, sugars and processed starch). Your “abdominal-centered” hunger will VANISH. hunger will be in the form of increased taste perceptions and saliva production – not growling stomachs.

      After the adaptation go out and eat buttered popcorn, hot wings, or a great steak dinner. The next morning you will feel INTENSE stomach pangs. Part of the issue is you have to get down to less than 1-2 servings a week to get there.

      I stopped craving pancakes, but right now, they sound really good. LOL. is that REALLY how I am going to launch 2012? damn you Carlos.

      ;^)

      more coming.

      Ray

      • Carlos Welch says:

        This post made me smile, brighten my morning, and will help me get over the hang over I have from a carb binge last night.

        Ray, I will try it for 6 weeks since that’s how long I have left in a body fat percentage contest I have with a friend.

        What will this do to my muscle mass given that I will continue strength training?

      • admin says:

        There is absolutely no requirement to supplement amino acids via meat to build muscle mass…certainly not to maintain. There is plenty of (complete) protein in plants. This is so easily verifiable, I’m not sure how we got to this place of nearly massive hysteria. Most amino acids consumer are not going into muscle tissue repair, but rather synthesis of the many protein-hormones and even digestive enzymes.

        Your body mostly wasted protein now and just digests for energy. As you restrict it, the body adapts and become far more judicious with amino acids. I’m not sure of the adaptation time. Just rest assured, cows put on 400 lbs in a year eating grass. You’ll be fine

        Now. In your face. I had fruit instead of pancakes. Complete with a serving of whipped CREAM. maybe pancakes for dinner. Maybe.

        Happy new year!

        Ray

  6. David Brown says:

    I have followed the 4hr diet since May ’11 (including a 60 degree, 30 minute bath every other day). I have ended the year only 15 lbs down. I have been 35 lbs. down, but got weary after ~ 9 months, and relapsed during the holidays. I have no serious plan outside of the 4hr diet, ie. beans and eggs. I need more direction. I wish you had this book done, but I understand the road your taking.

    We are sheep. Give us a plan!

    Dave brown

    • ron alpert says:

      I, too, only lost about 12 lbs on 4hb in 9 months…but more importantly my overall fat loss was 51% and total inches declined by 21 inches. My suggestion is to lose the weight mindset.

  7. Seth Featherston says:

    Well said, I like where you are going. The book “the end of overeating” is very good at explaining certain problems with all the processed foods and the drug hits you get from them. Still wondering about the difference between weight gain and fat gain in these studies by Eades. I will guarantee you that you will gain weight on a carb load because for every 1 gram of carb you need something like 3 grams of water to store it in your body, but is that fat? I don’t care if I weigh 225 or 150lbs as long as the excess fat is not there. Again I will say, if you prefer eating 8 times a day on calorie poor nutrient dense foods go right ahead, its a good strategy, and I do agree with you on the fact that not many can freely eat high fat /highly refined sugar/starch without overeating and getting excessive calories in the diet. So with the thermal load 2-4 hours after is when you get hungry, would it be another strategy to do it before bed so you sleep through it?

    • admin says:

      Seth

      I don’t eat 8x a day. I’m lucky to eat 3 when I eat this way. I can tell what people have done in thier diet by the way it’s discussed. If I were to say, I can’t run a marathon (because I really can’t right now) because I kept trying and got really sore and winded, it wouldn’t really be believable to a marathoner. I mean Randy Hall at 2:04:58 or a 4.7 minute mile for 2 hours, is incredible. To tell him I couldn’t EVER do it in 5 or 6 hours would sound ridiculous.

      He’d know that my problem was I hadn’t trained my body.

      If you are feeling hunger or lack of satiation, you’ve simply not eatened properly for long enough. There are two obstacles – lingering stomach pangs as you move from fatty diets to nutrient dense diets and volume. No doubt there WILL be a time of uncomfortable conversion. No different than sore and winded learning to run or hitting the gym for the first time. It passes.

      I doubt ANYONE reading this has ever really felt starvation or even significantly fasted. For up to 4-5 days metabolic rate increases with fasting. I’ll put references up later. If you fill a 14″ wok with tons of vegetables and use a light sauce (oil free), you’ll be challenged to eat it all and yet it’s probably under 300 calories on the order of 2 tablespoons of olive oil. I routinely eat that much volume. You won’t wake up hungry – at least not after your body is used to digesting high-fiber food and intestinal microbiome has stabilized.

      I see the fallacy now of several approaches. I spent the time to really dig in and self-experiment. I wanted method to work (wasn’t trying to disprove one way or other). In the end, my blood biomarkers moved MOST with plant based diets. I’m doing an assay soon on B12 to see where that is. Will report back.

      Recipes on the way. Anyone can do this successfully. Fat is A mission for me. THE mission is health.

      Ray

      • Seth Featherston says:

        I’m game, I will eat a high fiber vegetable diet one day and see how it goes. How long do I have to do it for to establish microbiome? And how would you go about it? Stirfry with certain types of veggies, or do I add beans or potatoes? Does it have to be every day, or does it starve off the microbiome if I don’t? I have fasted for 48 hours before, and I wasn’t hungry by the time I ate again. I think habit drove me to eat again. My mind plays tricks on me and justifies my actions, and this happens to everyone I believe. Beans are the worst for my digestive tract, followed closely by oats and then wheat, I believe its the brussels sprouts that mess with it as well, not so sure because I eat veggies in a medley of carrots, califlower, green beans, broccoli. I only usually eat broccoli alone with no problems.

      • admin says:

        Seth

        See my responses to Alex. Here’s the problem with that approach. I think the body needs at least 3-6 weeks to adapt. Personally my psychological adaptations to plant-based diet were harder to overcome than physical. When I went bacteria to meat to support Tim on slow-carb approach, there was a 6 week period when I felt horrible. Honestly, I never felt as good as my optimum periods on plant-base, which happened 8 months or so after I started).

        Most of this because I simply didnt know what to eat (the part before you swallow) and so I often stood dumbfounded in the produce department. Once I got into a groove (both mental and palate), everything fell int place.

        1) when I eat meat/dairy like the ribs/ice cream with my daughter last night (thanks to carlos “pancakes” welch) I feel it within 2 hours. Lethargy immeadiately and next day, extreme hunger.

        2) after thermal loads (approx 2-4hours) hunger picks up. I’ll eat a 14″ wok full of stir fry vegetables (no oil to cook, only water) with a relatively low cal sauce that ranges from tomato paste-based to soy. Lots of others you can experiment with. Flavor can be enhanced with a half- one teaspoon (2.5 ml-5 mls)in the same way a sprinkle of Salt works after limiting salt. It takes only a little once you stop saturating food with fats and oils.

        I’d be curious how long some of you take to convert over. I’ve met many on vegan side that experience similar effects, but the animal rights passion is a bias to what I want to learn/understand and ironically, on both sides of the debate.

        As for beans… No doubt they take adaptation. So do Brussels. Try beano for both and know it gets a lot better. I’ve not focused on the whole wheat gluten issue as I don’t consume that much outside of a tortilla for a wrap. I can leave breads alone and even pancakes, except when CARLOS is lurking with his cravings…

        The other listed veggies are all good. Reach out to parsnips, jicama, beets, and squash. Just watch total calories if trying to lose. In the absence of fat, most of these will fill you before you reach caloric limit if consumed with other veggie you list.

        That’s the key. Eat high fiber food with your prescriptive amount of starch and lay off the refined oils that hide calories. it’s 2 calories a Drop, 20 drops in a tsp, 3tsp in tbs (what a ridiculous measurement system we have). Another visual is 1 Hershey’s Kiss = 1/2 TEASPOON of olive oil. it adds up fast. So when a recipe calls for two tbs of olive oil, I think about 12 kisses melted on top. Keeps me on task.

        Ray

      • Carlos Welch says:

        Gasp, you didn’t! You’re sarcasm is so good that I cannot tell when you are joking any more. Did you really eat pancakes? Im sorry, LOL.

        Honestly, I know I could go without processed foods if I had to. The problem is that I dont want to. Is there no balance here? Can we not have a cheat day? Cravings are like ambition. They are only bad in excess. I crave navel oranges too. Maybe I could eat those instead of gas station goodies.

        I like your idea of having foods that you can eat in any amount without loading up on the calories (you have convinced me to stop counting carbs) but I dont want to give up pancakes for good. What if I eat the lowest calorie pancakes I can find in conjunction with my wok veggies? Cant we all just get along?

      • admin says:

        Ok. You don’t have to count if you switch to a plant based diet and cut refined sugars and oils. As well, make sure carbs don’t = breat etc… (but read this just for fun ).

        I don’t face a problem with fruits. I stay away from juices and eat whole fruit.

        Most of my meals are stir fry, Soups/stews, salads, and casseroles – basically most things you’d consider a side dish are my meals, but 3-4x as much as you’d serve. Again, I use mustard, vinegar(many flavor), hot sauces, soy, etc… Not oil or sugar. Also tons of herbs. I make mock curry with almond milk.

        I’m working on a guest blogger now to do nothing but food. Moving as fast as I can.

        For now, just read Joel fuhrmans eat to live and eat for health. Both on store link above.

        Cheat days. I know the weight loss answer is yes. I don’t know the health/satiation answer. Give it your all for 6 weeks. Then see how you feel.

        Ray

  8. Dan Williams says:

    Thanks for all the great info. I have a slightly different issue, I am a business owner and endurance athlete (8x Ironman Finisher). I try to balance proper nutrition, recovery and sometimes just staying alert and focused to run a business. Thoughts? Advice? Thanks and I love your work!!!

    • admin says:

      Wow. Amazing.

      You will love the training program that should be announced in the next few days.i started wit fatigue issues and high fasting blood sugar (~105-110). Ironically when I hit my lows it was hypoglycemia. I restricted “carbs” and it seemed to get better then it got really bad and I ended up with a 24 hour period I had no memory of.

      I did some digging and on the recommendation followed the advice in Eat to Live (fuhrman). I fixed it all in about 4 weeks! Fuhrman is not big on empty calorie (rice and potato) with the exception of athletes that need calorie. He’d rather you eat that than sugar or fats.

      Personally, I’d address fatigue first and forego the competition(unless your business) so that you can isolate. My gut says you could also benefit from thermal loading and envouraging your body to use fat faster. This might help your runs. I’m no expert at this, but have read extensively that volume (running)is key to get into fat utilization early in your run.

      Send me an email and I’ll give you a few things to try on fatigue. As well, I think it would be interesting for you to experiment on the fat/carb switch.

      Thanks for posting!!!

      Ray.

  9. Alex Stoilov says:

    Ray,from what I understand of this post is that good fat is not bad,but it is just to easy to overeat with it.I agree that it is more healthy and easy to loose weight with roots and plants,but imagine how much of them should an athlete eat to reach the 4-5000 kk he neads a day.

    • admin says:

      Alex

      I don’t have an answer and I don’t know if anyone can say for certain. When you say “athlete” and discuss caloric needs immediately my mind goes to marathon runners, ironman, or triathlete – these activities blow through glycogen reserves quickly. They have to tap into fat at some level and usually aren’t high in bodyfat to begin with. Fat has an advantage of caloric density.

      That said, chugging olive oil before the race is probably not going to work either.

      Still others might be talking about soccer, rugby or hockey – long periods of sustained output with periodic explosions. This to can be demanding.

      Bodybuilding, football, baseball, tennis, etc have a completely different requirement.

      I’m most interested in remaining fit. At the same time I think there are some truths to squeeze from the extremes. When I look at mark sisson primal blueprint and durianrider’s 30 bananas a day as extremes, I think the real answer is probably closer to durianrider, but not as extreme. I’m not a raw food – fruit proponent, but it’s probably not as unhealthy as the other side of pure animal. Again, there is overlap if these groups didn’t focus on causes (sales or animals). If you are doing a ton of P90X or crossfit, you deplete glycogen fast.

      I think optimal health is in the space where Paleolithic and Vegan intersect. There’s probably no harm in leaning either way, but the problem we have in getting to the answer is the entire animal rights wild card. It may be a noble cause, I don’t participate in “causes” per se, but it’s an obfuscation to finding optimal health. The fitness industry’s obsession with profitable supplements (goop) is just as annoying. I think there is a role, but again it’s an added variable.

      On the other side, the USDA’s blind promotion of meat, highly refined grains, high fructose corn syrup and dairy – despite rampant obesity is probably the most offensive attack on public health that’s ever been mounted.

      I personally believe everyone should minimize down to a nutrient dense/calorically poor diet and then experiment with adding back calorie to meet athletic needs through starches, oils, etc. The problem isn’t “meat is bad” so much as it’s loaded with fat and protein that drive hunger, change taste perceptions, intestinal micro biome, and displace necessary nutrients for optimal health. We get dopamine hits and satiation and then become nutrient deficient – oh, and have I got a supplement, shake or pill for you!

      Real food doesn’t come in pills and while supplements have a place, blindly over consuming on bioactive compounds is probably not a good thing in the same way that eating 250 of extracted sugar is bad. When the compound is energy (sugar) we see the fat stored as a recognizable, physical result. What about excess omega-3s or vitamin K or lysine consumption? Do only excessive, massive macronutrient ingestions cause imbalanecs in health? What about concentrated micronutrients? Maybe our digestive track is better at deciding “should it stay or should it go” than the vitamin shoppe Perhaps this goop we all decide to drink has the same impact on our health as the result of grinding animal processing waste, bones, and corncobs as nutrient sources had on cattle “escape proteins”.

      Isn’t that what grass fed beef is all about? Is goop bad for cows and good for humans?

      Believe me when I say the scientist that were designing these “blended foods” for cattle did take the time to look at sugars, amino acids and other nutrients. They wanted to grow better cows and grow them faster. They dont have extreme hunan protocol committees ir lying, non-compliant cows to deal with – they build ports into the animal to take samples. The best studied protein shake’s effect on human health doesn’t compare to the science of feed formulation for livestock – I was raised with a family cattle farm in Tennessee. Yet, the healthy beef movement would have us believe that it’s this feed supplement that’s the root of unhealthy meat.

      The farming question: What is the optimum glop to feed them? Wait, doesn’t this sound familiar? Perhaps an ad from Muscle & Fitness?

      We know what cows eat – grass. We have no idea what humans eat, because of thousands of year of cultural bias. I know it’s not chicken cordon Bleu or donuts. That’s why I began my own experiments (no causes) with plant source as basis and added back calorie. When it was refined oils, sugar and fat, I experienced hunger. With complex carbohydrate, I did not. Unless you start from a basis of months of adaptation, you’re not going to see this in 2 weeks. Now I can demonstrate it easily to myself with one meal.

      Sorry I don’t just know the answer, but I do think you should begin some self experiments and push out from your comfort zone.

      Ray

  10. Alex Stoilov says:

    I have done a lot of experiments in the past two years.I think everyone already knows that sugar and oil are bad.And the most healthy foods are those in the mother nature:meat,plants,roots,veggies and berries.Untill soon I thought that the body can use only fats or carbs for energy.And the big question was wich of them is best in long term.Now I begin to think that the human body can use both of them.It can use the fat for low activity and steady state cardio,and the carbs for intensity work.So we must not drain our body neither fat or carbs.In my opinion the best we can do is to eat meat and roots.Potatoes only after an intense workout.

    • admin says:

      Agreed. We’ll solve the optimized energy problem before we solve chronic disease/health. Where these two problems conflict is the challenge.

      I don’t think the case for meat is so clear. Since I’ve eaten it all my life, I decided to try a different approach. So far, my bloodwork says that it’s working and I’ve experienced no muscle atrophy.

      What is really eye- opening to me is how all Resturant food (even vegan) is prepared and how it makes me feel. When you cut to the basics, give the body time to adapt(Q:how long?), and then add/subtract foods the results are obvious.

      I’m working on a forum so we can all begin these discussions. If anyone wants to / have experience with moderation – send me contact info.

      Alex, lets keep this moving and revisit after protein posts.

      Ray

      • Carlos Welch says:

        Simplicity. I like “When you cut to the basics, give the body time to adapt(Q:how long?), and then add/subtract foods”

        Can you give a general idea of “the basics”? I know veggies are cool, but what about fruits? I could be a happy camper with grapes, apples, and oranges as staples.

        Thanks for taking the time to hear me out. Sometimes I think I am the only non-scientist to read your blog. In the end, whatever you/we come up with has to work for John/Jane Q. Public in order to make a widespread impact. My main goal in all this is eating for fat reduction and muscle growth without feeling so unsatisfied and restricted by a “diet”.

      • admin says:

        Yes. I hadn’t intended to get into food last year, but it’s clear there are other valid approachs that don’t get enough attention.

        I’ve been putting together some people to help out…

        Will be very digestible ( pun intended) for joe six-pack.

        Ray

      • Michael Pinter says:

        Lots of non-scientists read this blog

  11. Alex Stoilov says:

    I think everyone who wants to be healthy should eat in restaurant as little as possible.Even when I go out with friends I eat at home just before go outside.

    • admin says:

      That appears to be an international truth.

      Ray

    • Mark Carroll says:

      I wish this were not the case. As someone who makes a living traveling, I need options on the road. Of course, this is also the reason I am looking forward to seeing how extreme Ray could go, because there are days where I literally do not eat, and I don’t think that is a bad thing.

      • admin says:

        actually there is a lot of good research on fasting. Right now, I’m researching a blog on our digestive system. I guess, it would be nice to show how complex the process really is.

        In looking, I found some great articles on fasting and will address that a bit. this *might* come out before protein, because I want everyone to really key in on nutrient absorption. Protein is both a back-up macronutrient and micronutrient (amino acids) at the same time. It’s really key to have at least some idea of what happens after you swallow (eat).

        More soon! thanks mark! 2012 is the year you finish!

        Ray

  12. Izzat Nordin says:

    Hello Mr Ray. I really enjoy reading your blog & am learning a lot. It’s quite an eye opener. I came here after reading the book from Mr Tim. I have yet to try the mild cold exposure method but I am collecting as much information because I needed to loose all the excess weight from my body.
    I’ve also read 811RV diet by Dr Graham. From what I read so far, going vegan & avoiding most of the processed foods is a really good way to jump start fat burning in our body. Although right now I am a bit confused as the info regarding fruit intake in Mr Tim’s book has to be avoided as 1 of the rules of the slow carb diet. What are your takes on 811RV diet?

    • admin says:

      Welcome!

      Ultimately there are three things that drive our weight: caloric intake, microbiome in gut and nutrient uptake (absorption). The body wants to survive and senses shifts from its perception of “normal” as a potential threat. You are in essence resetting yourself with long term habits.

      When you wake up resolved to “begin eating different,” the drastic change forces the body to do the only thing it knows – resist change.

      811 is probably closer to what the average diet we ate for millions of years with one big exception – too many varied calories and two many seasonal sugars year round.

      I’m posting Protein – Part 1 this week. And then I’ll move on to “The Food Triangle.” It will explain from a standpoint of microbiome, digestion, and energy exactly why 811, Paleo, slocarb, and Atkins ALL work. There’s a simple, elegant answer.

      I’d recommend that you try Eat to Live (fuhrman) or 21 day kickstart (Barnard) before 811 or any raw vegan approach. Both books can be found on my amazon store link above.

      Keep us posted.

      Ray

  13. sean greenberg says:

    “Calories in – calories out” and the caloric deficit method has been proven wrong may times over.

  14. ellie Riley says:

    Hello Ray
    I am new here and looking forward to digging into the info. I just wanted to comment about low fat vegan diets. I did this for a couple of years, hoping it would help with controlling my MS. I felt great for the first few months after getting rid of the processed rubbish in my diet. However, over time I began to feel really, really unwell (dry skin, extreme fatigue and malaise, poor infection control, dry eyes, dental problems, daily diarrhoea, feeling very cold, dry hair, MS much more aggressive), I think as a result of deficiencies of fat soluble nutrients. I have since realised I probably wasn’t making the carotene-retinol conversion successfully. I still eat lots of plants but adding lots of fat and eggs and meat back in has been a life saver for me I felt dramatically better within a few weeks of adding these back. I have since discovered that lots of others have had similar experiences with all vegan diets – feel good at first but increasing problems after a few years. Appetite-wise I feel much better with high fat and protein – I never felt full as a vegan even after eating piles of food. Still, it seems to suit some people – it will be interesting to see how your food journey progresses – hope it works for you.
    best wishes
    Agatha

    • admin says:

      welcome and will love to hear your experiences. There is a pretty extensive study going on at University of Oregon Health & Science University. This is funded at the level of $750k by Dr John McDougall and his group. I think that everything you describe could be also a different issue – in other words, you could have fixed the same thing with or without the eggs and meat. That’s not a nutrient dense food source (other than B12, which is easily supplemented). I don’t deny your issues or your observations, but I think that there are so many “carbaphobes” that it causes these diets more difficulty then necessary. Certainly, extremely low fat for your situation (hair, skin, etc…) was not warranted. There are other ways to add it back.

      IF you weren’t feeling satiety, that gives me an idea of what you were deficient in as most description of “hunger” are basically calorie withdraw.

      Take a look at Dr. McDougall’s MS site as I spoke to a few people that have had amazing turn arounds. He gave a brief update at a recent advance study weekend, but is staying clear of the study so the principle investigators aren’t biased. Initial reports were very promising.

      I’ve been doing this for three years (with some side experiments on slow carb and binge eating), but the opposite is true. Never felt more full, skin never looked better, hair and nails grow faster and thicker and people now often under guess my age by a decade or more. I just found out that Wim Hof had lived a vegetating diet for 30 years while doing all of his ice training. It’s too lose to call science, but certainly it has my attention.

      you really ought to take a look at what McDougall is recommending for MS and try to discern what you were doing different.

      Keep us posted!!

      Ray

  15. ellie Riley says:

    Thanks for taking the time to reply Ray. I based my diet around the kind of diets recommended by Swank, McDougall and Colin Campbell. That is a varied wholefoods diet containing a wide range of of vegetables, fruits, non gluten grains, tubers, legumes together with small amounts of olive oil, nuts, seeds and a little fish oil. I supplemented B12 and ate almost no processed food. I had high hopes this would really help but it didn’t seem to work for me although I know others have had good results with it. Pity really, I quite liked the food. I’m glad you are doing well with your diet – that’s great.

  16. Alex Stoilov says:

    As we need some healthy fats in our diet I use nuts,avocado,olives,seeds.What do you think of eggs.Are they healthy source of fat?

    • admin says:

      My question is why not eat the healthy fats without the ones you don’t need. Cholesterol is manufactured by your body (and other animals) and doesn’t need to be ingested. Is some level in the diet tolerated? yes. Flax seed, on the other hand has High omega-3 and low omega-6 (like .2:1) and doesn’t contain the extra cholesterol. What it does have is phytosterols that are believed to compete with the absorption of cholesterol in the intestines.

      I love flaxseed, but the oil is sort of..bleh to me (well, a lot bleh). I keep an old “magic bullet” style grinder in the kitchen and give it a few whirs and eat flax seed when I am cooking. I just don’t want to take pills every day, but that probably works too. There are tons of benefits and no real downside that I’ve seen. I’ve basically added flaxseed/B-vitamins and the rest is eaten as food -Things that grow and are recognized.

      you can sprinkle it on foods, but found that unless you grind it, It seems like expensive “tracer” particles for digestion. Corn works a lot better and is easier to spot 🙂 Disgusting, perhaps, but knowing the time through the system is important for lots of reasons.

      Why load up with healthy diets with “bad” fats to get a smaller percentage of “good” fats. In the US, many people will justify a home mortgage as a “tax write off.” This is the financial equivalent – give the bank $100 in interest so that you can save $30 in tax. It’s a net loss of $70. That’s a simplistic answer (ok, let’s not digress into leveraging money), but it makes the point. You don’t have to take “bad fat” to consume “good fat.” Salmon is another excellent example of the same thing. If omega-3s are good, take them, just buy the marketing hype that it’s a reason to consume the stuff that most agree is “bad.”

      Ray

  17. Alex Stoilov says:

    I am not saying LOAD UP with fats,what I asked is can I substitute the nuts with eggs once in a while.It is not recommended to remove the fats, as we need them for the producing of some hormones.There are still not any fats in veggies.I am not sure if some flax seed is enough to cover the fats that body needs to produce these hormones.Of course I may be wrong.

  18. Caroline Cooper says:

    I don’t know if you have seen this post about vegan diets and fat. He calls vegans “cannibals” but I think he really means “autocannibalism” or “autosarcophagy”. Maybe you will find it amusing. I certainly did:
    http://www.gnolls.org/1596/vegans-are-cannibals-the-truth-behind-the-new-vegan-high/

    For people new to the term autosarcophagy please see:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-cannibalism

    • admin says:

      Thanks for the comment.

      No, I haven’t seen It and quite frankly, I ignore these ideological debates. I’m not a “vegan” as I’ve stated on many occasions, because that’s more about ideology than health as well. There are some great truths nestled in many ideological arguments, but it’s not worth the exasperation to debate with people that live by dogma.

      It’s a shame that people like this place so much effort in being wrong – lol.

      I’m very pleased to know that for nearly a century, we got the “protein” argument correct. As best I can track down it started slipping in about 1915 when the then “wheat vs beef” marketing campaigns began. I’ve not lost any muscle mass in 3 years – but maybe the wasting on human flesh plot was foiled by the occasional sushi, ribs or hot wings – lol

      In any event, the entire protein carbohydrate fat construct of food is someone made up and arbitrary. True are those macronutrients (along with alcohol) but the massive excess of maintenance levels of protein are simply burned or shoved into gluconeogenesis.

      There’s a quite brilliant debate in one of the original historical nutritional textbooks I’ve collected (along with hundreds of documents going back 200 years! Thank you eBay). At some point when I come back to this it would be a great story to tell.

      Oh, and just to be clear, potatoes are a complete source of protein – not that Im Mr Potatohead, I just picked potato and rice to prove a point. That evil bad, white “carbs” aren’t even “carbs” and “carbs” are not what make you fat. This has been too much fun. Really appreciate all the self-experimenters out there. Now go forth and sleep without covers. They will ALL say I’m not normal at that point, which is okay, because “normal” is broken.

      Thanks!

      Ray

  19. Lore Zyra says:

    Hey Ray… I thought I would post this in the event you (and your audience) haven’t read about this…
    This article provides empirical proof that our bodies don’t save fat in the face of starvation…
    “Mathematical model of weight loss under total starvation: evidence against the thrifty-gene hypothesis”
    http://dmm.biologists.org/content/6/1/236.full.pdf+html

    Further reading of interest: 382 day fast that was MEDICALLY SUPERVISED.
    http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.full.pdf+html
    The 27 yr. old male went from 207Kg to about 81Kg in just over a year! This study was performed back in 1968. I wonder if your ideas on thermogenics would have sped up the process. I would be keen to see a serious and large scale human trail on a program employing “thermogenics.” Such a program would study at least 500 people representing the major genetic groups of our species over the course of 12-18 months. The participants would be over-weight with a body fat exceeding 30% or a BMI rating over 32. Additionally, the group would be of divided by age ranges. During the course of the trail, points of interest would focus on the blood chemistry throughout the weight changes as well as muscle and fat masses. This study would also track the metabolic rates of each group. Another vector of the trail could investigate the psychological impacts of the changes and compare with the control groups. I suspect the results of such a study would be quite fascinating.

    Additionally, I don’t care to find the post on your blog where the commenter suggested that we are like polar bears — saving fat for the winter hibernation. What people seemingly fail to realize is that even bears have a metabolism that burns fat similarly to humans. Through evolutionary means, bears “know” they must eat _a lot_ to survive the harsh winter periods. But via “fasting,” bears burn through their storage tanks. My point is simply that not even polar bears “save fat…” Rather they eat more than what they need to endure the summer months.
    Humans, similarly will burn fat stores in times of famine. We, like the bear, can store up (depending on our DNA) a significant amount of fat. Unlike our ancestors a hundred years ago, we have constant access to food. Not just instant access, but cheap and affordable food. We don’t need to stress over how to get our next meal. Our DNA still operates under the assumption that food will be scarce. I believe that we can compensate for this difference with education.
    This is where I appreciate of your efforts to enlighten people on the best methods to healthier living. In hindsight, much of what you have espoused seems like common-sense. However, I have observed that contrary to popular belief, “common sense” is not that common.

  20. Christina Karlhoff says:

    Hi there!
    First, i am happy to report that my fat burning days are in full swing, at a rate of about 3 pounds per week. 20 down, 20 to go! YeY me 🙂
    In efforts to continue my fat-burning progress, i have been eating raw/cooked greens & beans exclusively. That said, I would like to hear what you have to say about fruit consumption: In this post you assert and remind that simple sugars, processed carbs, and extracted fat/oils all contain a ton of energy (fuel) and will slow down the rate of loss. On the other hand, Dr. Fuhrman says eating at least 3 fruits per day and up to an ounce of nuts per day is recommended.
    Up to this point in my fat loss regimen I’ve been doing GOMBS (or GBOMS) instead of GBOMBS…which seems to work well. My question to you is: Am i doing the right thing by following the “diabetic version” of the Nutritarian diet?
    I’d love to be able to include some berries and ground flax seed in my daily eating for health more-so than satisfying any cravings, which–let’s face it– i’ve satisfied those for the past forty years (lol).
    Just want to do this right, for the last time and finally. I want to regain as much health as-is possible in the wake of all those dumb-ass self-damaging things i’ve done (smoked, drank alcohol, ate CRAP)
    I want my healthy svelte self back ASAP!
    🙂

  21. Justin Reinhart says:

    I think your WordPress may have been compromised at some point. A few paragraphs in there’s a link to “buy used commercial inflatable water slides”. You probably want to remove that and then feel free to delete my comment.

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