He’s back. Well, actually I never went anywhere, but it’s been a few months since I added to the blog. In the mean time hundreds of pounds were lost by people I worked with directly, an invited commentary was submitted to a journal, and I have performed dozens of calorimetry, blood sugar, and food experiments.
Sometimes it’s necessary to isolate from all the bias and do the boring thinking part. It’s far easier to hype, but at the root of all innovations is a break from status quo. Like trucks drafting on the highway, it’s quite easy to get sucked into the popular dogma to avoid slamming into the guardrails.
My mentor in innovation, aviation rebel Burt Rutan, says you have to have “confidence in nonsense” to innovate. That doesn’t mean that every nonsensical idea represents brilliance, but there is a certain break with the masses that occurs with each innovation. In addition to crazy ideas (we can find a lot of those out there), one must measure carefully and that is the boring part, but I LOVE it. I also like old books, because they give one a much more grounded view of how our current ideas evolved and sometimes it’s easier to see the forks in the road that lead to the current (obviously wrong) idea about eating by stepping back and working your way through it. If you love history and musty, stained books, then it’s really a joy to do it.
History not reflected, repeats.
There’s been a lot of ground covered in the nearly three years I have been blogging and it’s exciting just how much more research is coming out every year. So many people are doing great work. I have much more on metabolism and the macronutrient shuffle, but I’d like to cover some new work that published over the last year and a few papers have been meaning to cover for some time.
Since it’s been a while since I last posted (yikes!) or you are visiting for the first time, let’s digest a few bits before going into the main topic. What I want you to know at the highest level is food, or fuel, is THE reason people fight obesity and many chronic diseases. Further, I think macronutrient labels (protein, carbohydrate and fat) are meaningless when discussing food, eating schemes or meals. Exercise is incredibly beneficial with increasing performance and many health biomarkers, but it’s not the fastest way to lose body fat and can significantly impede weight loss.
Your metabolism isn’t broken or low – in fact it scales (gets larger), as does lean mass, with weight. Hitting the gym to put on lean mass to burn calories and ramp the metabolism isn’t necessarily the solution. If lean mass was the only thing needed to lose weight then why do bodybuilders or football players ever get fat? They certainly both have more lean mass than I or Aunt ethel will ever have. You know what?
You can’t out exercise your mouth.
It’s food. It is what they eat not how they burn it. I didn’t say don’t go to the gym nor am I attacking bodybuilding or football, but I want to disconnect those activities from the notion that people are overweight because they aren’t “active” enough or don’t have enough “lean mass” to melt the fat away. It simply isn’t true and for the most part, exercise nowhere near as an effective way to lose weight as diet – especially for people with 50+ lbs to lose. I am not implying that there aren’t ways to boost metabolism, but what your diet has a much larger effect on the outcome.
For the last year, I had the luxury of measuring many situations and conditions in a home metabolic lab. There is a seemingly unending list of myths I once believed, things that are repeated as fact in everyday conversation, which are not consistent with what I see in the lab or the peer reviewed literature. It’s humbling and frustrating all at the same time. Some of you see this and many more don’t, but anyone that carefully measures would come to similar conclusions. Part of the problem is the monolithic, group-think that seems to infect the fitness/diet community. Certainly the medical community isn’t immune. I was as guilty as the next.
I’ve heard it said that a generalist is one that knows less and less about more and more until they know nothing about everything and a specialist is one that that knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing. We have a lot of generalists and specialists parading dogma despite unprecedented understanding about how our body works. I’ve reflected a bit on just how this happens and perhaps we can use it as a sub theme for today’s post.
In the northern hemisphere it is fall, and this is now ABSOLUTELY one of my favorite times of the year. This is biologically a period running up to winter’s conservation. It’s a time when our metabolic system becomes stressed and will rebound with vigor in the spring. This is analogous to muscle hypertrophy in response to the biological stress of lifting a weight. The overall endocrine system is not stressed by excessive nutrition; it’s stressed by caloric restriction and there is 70 years of data to support this hypothesis.
Every organism tested, from yeast to mammals, lives longer (40-50%) when Calories are restricted typically ~15-30% (up to 25-60%) of normal for that species (1-3). The ideal notion is to supply sufficient nutrition with minimum Calories. Note: you don’t get life bonus points and extra Calories to eat by purposefully concentrating biologically active compounds [insert supplements] and ingesting them in huge doses not found in nature – health doesn’t come in a pill or powder. Chronic overnutrition isn’t solved with more food or nutrients. For over 150 years nutrient content is the catch-all buzz to market excess food.
This idea of Calorie restriction should invoke a similar curiosity in everyone: if one continually restricts calories by 15-30% of normal, shouldn’t a point of diminishing return eventually be reached? In other words, if a certain number of calories are “necessary” to maintain a person or organism, restriction below that number for a lifetime should eventually catch up. Can one truly be in “deficit” forever? Let’s not ask politicians; after all Lavoisier got decapitated for meddling in such political nonsense. It’s still an interesting question: how much is enough food?
Creating Permanent Change
Over the last 5 years I took a decidedly different approach to the problem from the proceeding 20+ years of relative “failure;” I couldn’t control my weight and had biomarkers inching in the wrong direction. Looking back now, especially after spending the last few months on a journal manuscript, countless self-experiments, and coaching dozens to success, I can summarize my perspective by offering a simple shift in two questions that drove all of this work.
1) How do I lose weight -> Why do I gain weight?
2) What do I eat? -> How is the food I eat processed?
While these might appear to be nearly identical questions, it turns out they are extremely different questions and the answers cause conflicts with many popular “schemes” about food and metabolism. With that, let’s segue to one area of metabolism you absolutely can have a dramatic impact on even at the cellular level.
Power Plants and Fuel
We all know that in order for an engine to run an oxidizer and fuel must be supplied. The reaction creates new products and typically a lot of extra heat. When the Space Shuttle Main Engine used to fire, hydrogen (fuel) and oxygen (oxidizer) were combined to make water and obvious extra heat.
The hydrogen and oxygen fuel/oxidizer were contained in the large External Tank in the center. The solid rocket boosters (on each side of the ET) used Aluminum for fuel and ammonium perchlorate for oxidizer. I think it is fascinating to think that the same basic chemistry of a rocket engine is used by the power plant of cells, the mitochondrion, deliver energy to live and move.
Instead of rocket fuel, hydrogen, mitochondria use amino acids, monosaccharides, fats, and alcohol for fuel. Combined with atmospheric oxygen, they oxidizer, they produces ATP + waste heat. The waste heat is managed and that is what maintains our temperature – we are designed to live in environments cooler than body temperature in order to dissipate this excess heat. ATP is the currency of energy in the cell and you can learn more if you want in this tutorial at Kahn Academy.
I am only dealing with FAT/CHO in the graphic, because ultimately the fate of the other macronutrients (amino acids/alcohol) end up inserting into the CHO pathway. Later we’ll clear up some of the many myths of ingested versus endogenous sources, but suffice it to say one doesn’t store alcohol (in coolers doesn’t count). Breaking down of tissues for either indispensable amino acid stores or back up energy is not as common as portrayed as it is easily avoided with even modest amounts of ingested whole-food Calorie.
So we have a fuel currency and everyone wants to believe the obesity “problem” is a simple macronutrient ratio. We hear it’s fat. No, it’s protein. No, it’s carbohydrate. The truth is that we all simply “eat” too much. Chronic overnutrition is THE problem, because in the real world, Calories are scarce. That is why I find the mitochondrion and mild cold stress so fascinating. These are inextricably linked and our biology has provided a way to not only recycle that waste engine heat, much like the heater in your car, but in certain situations stop producing ATP altogether and just create heat.
What is even more fascinating is that while BAT seems to get the center stage in the press, every mitochondrion in your body has the ability to play in this ATP/heat exchange. It turns out that mitochondria even have their own DNA – separate from the genes that make you, “you.” In the last few years, scientist have been toying on the edge of some incredible work that addresses a certain mitochondrial DNA diseases (4), and you can explore that more here and here. I’m not thinking about jumping into mitochondrial DNA modifications at the moment, but it is important to ponder just how independent these tiny power plants are and consider the overall coordination involved in them working in unity.
With the exception of red blood cells, all your cells contain these powerplants and they are not only at the center of this waste heat production I’m always tapping into, but also at the very root of aging. What seems paradoxical is that caloric restriction actually increases mitochondrial biogenesis (formation of new mitochondrion); that’s more power plants created on a diet of less fuel. Overall, the point to keep in mind is that each mitochondrion decides: 1) what fuel to use based on a host of coordinated signalling, 2) whether or not to produce ATP, and 3) is capable of generating an enormous amount of heat.
Record Breaking Wisdom
A little over a week ago Wim Hof broke another world record – one hour and 53 minutes in direct contact with ice. He’s demonstrated numerous time this ability and although it’s been shown that he can generate up to 5 times the amount of heat of younger, healthy (untrained men) he would be the first to humbly say, anyone can do this. He in fact has trained many people to adapt to mild cold stress and today we will look at science that backs up his claims.
There are numerous other medical benefits, but let’s move beyond. I think it is funny to note that when I visited him last during a Netherlands winter, he always reached for a jacket when we went for walks or to the grocery store and we laughed at the fact I just threw on a pair of gloves and a hat. The iceman has a coat.
Now, I am not trying to imply I can take him on in dueling cold, but wish to point out we all have these habits. Today, I will give you a few things to change as winter approaches that will tweak these habits and help you adapt. Back to mitochondrial response to cold shock. The first thing to recognize is that these responses happen at the cellular level. Each cell is it’s own little domain, and although coordinated and affected by overall endocrine activity, they have the power to bypass ATP production in defense of cold shock (5). Next is to understand that heat generation not limited to the mitochondria in BAT. Every mitochondrion contributes via the normal cellular activity resulting in 80% waste heat, but further, they can all take it up a notch and give us the the extra 20% in heat instead of ATP.
Adapting the cool approach
In 2008, researchers demonstrated that muscle cells also contribute significantly to adaptive thermogenesis. (6). In this study 11 lean men were tested at 22C and 16C inside a respiration chamber (a whole room indirect caloriemeter). Even though activity actually fell during the period of mild cold stress, total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) increased. After a baseline measurement of 34 hours at 22C, they were measured for 84 hours at 16C (60F). This temperature was picked so as to not induce shivering.
Qualitatively, it happens to be exactly the temperature I find that the most people can tolerate with little period of adaptation. A biopsy from leg muscle (M. vastus lateralis), was taken after each test period and later analyzed for mitochondrial uncoupling. Those results clearly demonstrate it is present. The authors also note that epinephrine has been reported to increase total body energy expenditure of up to 40%. What this means is that whether you have BAT or not, you can still adapt and create non-shivering heat. Not only that, but it’s more energetically favorable to skip the ATP step (shivering/exercise) and just dump the high-calorie stored fuel (FAT) directly to heat.
We learned in A New Eye on BAT, that Irisin produced in a response to exercise promoted the “browning” of white adipose tissue and caused them to join the Muscle/BAT heat game. The puzzling paradox was that of a tissue encouraged to “waste” energy by producing heat as a response to increased activity. At first, these two actions would appear to conflict: excess activity causes tissue to be formed, which in turn creates 100% waste heat instead of ATP involved in cellular activity and survival. As examined from the larger perspective it seems like an energy death spiral, but if exercise is viewed as a modern day mimic of shivering, this is a more effective way to keep the body warm – i.e. it conserves energy.
Even though exercise and shivering are primarily an activity of high respiratory quotients (i.e. glycogen/CHO, not FAT), the body does have a system to efficiently adapt to a dense fuel source (FAT) without the deleterious tissue breakdown associated with prolonged/intense muscular activity. Earlier this year, two related research projects showed up.
The first looked at the simple acclamation progression of exposing subjects to an environment temperature of 15-16C (60F) for 10 consecutive days and then looked at the activity level of non shivering thermogenesis (NST) and BAT. (7) At the same time they surveyed three key indicators of comfort: How are you feeling (temperature) now? Do you think this is….(comfortable to uncomfortable)? and Are you shivering?
What is not too surprising is that after 10 days all of the questions saw a significant improvement (move towards comfort/non shivering). We’ll discuss this below. The acclimation also increased NST by 10%. Remember, this is heat generated directly through mitochondrial activity bypassing the shivering/ATP step. While no rise in RMR was detected (I suspect they didn’t measure during cold exposure), they also don’t report RQ, so there’s no way to tell if an increase in fat oxidation was associated with the acclimation. They do state that the mitochondria became sensitive to fatty acids with the exposure. The also briefly discuss the lack of skeletal muscle recruitment seen in earlier studies by same team (above), but suggest it might be linked to intermittent exposure vs the previous continuous exposure.
Finally, It was interesting that BAT was detected in 94% of participants before and 100% afterwards – a long way from just decade or so ago when it was believed we lost all BAT by adulthood. Overall the detectable BAT quantities increase by 37%. And let’s go back to the test conditions…we are talking about 60F (15C) for only 6 hours a day! This is a great fall/spring day whether you happen to now be in the Northern/Southern hemisphere. This is NOT cold…nor is it an ice bath or extreme. It’s the equivalent of spending a couple of hours in cool, not cold conditions. This is something everyone could easily accomplish.
Spice it up.
Figure 1 Contribution of BAT to whole-body EE.
(A and B) FDG-PET/CT images of subjects with detectable (A) and undetectable (B) activities of BAT. (C) Whole-body EE at 27°C and after 2-hour cold exposure at 19°C. (D) CIT. (E) Fat-free mass. (F–H) Relationships of fat-free mass to EE at 27°C (F), EE at 19°C (G) and CIT (H). (I) BAT activity. (J–L) Relationship of BAT activity to EE at 27°C (J), EE at 19°C (K), and CIT (L).
The second paper was from a team in Japan and looked at 2-hour mild cold stress (17C/62F) treatments for six weeks, 19C/66F 2-hour exposure on energy expenditure (EE), and compared these to daily ingestion of capsinoids (pepper extracts) for six weeks. (8) Similar to the study above, a clear association of mild cold stress and increased metabolic activity was demonstrated.
In this study of 51 young men, a little over half showed BAT that was activated by the one time exposure to 19C (see Figure 1, E). Of the detected/undetected, both saw a significant increase in EE (c), but those with BAT saw 252 kcal/day vs 78.8 kcal/day. They also saw a strong association between fat-free mass and EE – in other words resting metabolic rate scaled with fat free mass.
Reflecting back on our Part 3 of Muscling Your Metabolism, don’t forget that lean mass scales with weight – ladies (and men), pay attention here – the more you weigh the more lean mass is under the “fat suit” to carry around those extra pounds and the higher your metabolism is to support such effort. (9) At the same time let’s also not forget that it’s also been demonstrated that the average daily energy expenditure of traditional hunter gatherers was no different than that of modern day Western (US and European) counterparts after controlling for body size; as such, “lifestyle had no effect on total energy expenditure.” (10)
So let’s look at this clearly, and accurately, in terms of my simple question above: if putting lean mass on to burn calories (clearly demonstrated in this and other studies) was our main concern, then the bigger you are the more lean mass you have and the higher the metabolic rate.
Further, if we are all just suffering from too much sedentary lifestyle and just need to go roll more boulders and chase a few antelope, then this isn’t very consistent. Your metabolism or lean mass is likely not the problem at all and that’s why one can continue to run marathons and not lose weight. We eat too often, too calorie dense and too much.
Spread the word: you can’t out exercise your mouth.
Now, back to the mild cold stress. What is also interesting in a cohort of similarly aged young men that fat-free mass was closely tied to EE at 27C, but not at 19C during mild cold stress (see: F-H). So this clearly distinguishes between BAT contribution to EE vs fat-free mass. But like the study above, the 6-week, 2-hour a day exposure to 17C/60F resulted in an increase in both BAT activity and BAT detection: individuals with no BAT detectable at the start showed active BAT at week 6 (see Figure 2A in the paper).
Obviously anyone paying attention here should see the conflict, maybe in these short term acclimation studies (intermittent) BAT becomes the first line of defense (if you have it). Further, if you don’t have BAT it seems that one can recruit it. Finally, there are also examples that even skeletal muscle can contribute in chronically cold (read natural winter exposure pre modern world). We’ll address this in the practicum below.
Whole-body EE before and after chronic stimulation by cold and capsinoids. (A) Effects of repeated cold exposure for 6 wk. (B) Effects of daily ingestion of capsinoids for 6 wk. ( from supplemental methods)
Finally, this study had this interesting twist of the effect of capsinoids from a specific pepper (do you hear the supplement companies beating your door down?). This is actually an interesting class of non-pungent capsaicin from a sweet pepper (CH-19 Sweet, Capsicum anuum L.). Reasoning that the increase in dietary induced thermogenesis was related metabolically to the heat rush stimulated by pepper exposure, they tested in a cross-over, randomized, single-blind trial comparing placebo/capsinoid capsules ingested daily for 4-6 weeks… and it worked!
Those receiving the capsiate had an increase in EE similar to the same treatment with mild cold stress.
That’s actually surprising and an interesting result. Once again, they didn’t report the more important figure, RQ, which would tell us how much more of this EE activity is actually helping contribute disposal of stored fat. I have first hand data that the cold exposure does decrease RQ over time (moving towards more fat metabolism). It would be interesting to see if that played out here as well.
The Practicum – Your Autumn Experience
Ok, so we moved all over the place today and I am always asked for practical applications of all of these intellectual curiosities. With a few extreme exceptions, the move-more message to burn fat and increase metabolism is pretty weak at best. Further, the lean muscle burns fat argument, while true, is mostly irrelevant. What you put in your mouth (future post) every day has far more effect on your results if fat-loss is the goal. If you want to run faster, jump higher and swim farther – exercise is the solution. Wim is challenging the endurance portion of exercise, but that’s for another time.
This is not to say one can’t have a profound impact on metabolism with mild cold stress, but even that is not going to make up for the $1 buffet; you can’t out exercise your mouth. The only exercise guaranteed to work is to isometrically clench one’s mouth in the presence of excess calories. Let’s assume you’ve picked your dietary regime, be it paleo, vegan, body for life, whatever… and you want to lose.
Fall is an EXCELLENT time for the adaptation we see in all of these studies. This is the natural period where cold ushered in and our bodies are designed to adapt – everyone can do it, don’t use the pathetic story of cold natured, big boned, or genetic destiny. Instead, ease into it.
I have given out one prescription for muting your immediate response to cold and increasing your cold (and paradoxically hot) tolerance. I call it: 10-20-10x and it is a procedure Wim Hof and I developed together based on both of our experiences. First, you need only a GYMBOSS timer (you can contribute by getting it on my Amazon store or there is a free App) and a shower (consider the silicone skin for $2).
Finish the cleaning part of shower at a normal temperature (hint, slowly reduce your shower from scalding to normal-warm over a week or so if steaming shower is your thing). Then you’ll do 10 seconds of warm followed by 20 seconds of cold and repeat that interval 10 times (10-20-10x). You want to end on cold for a minute or two. It will suck pretty bad at first, don’t say you weren’t warned. That being said, it gets not only tolerable, but the best description I’ve heard is you’ll eventually get the same “runner’s high” after a race. It really gets you going.
What is going on during this crazy exercise? Vasoconstriction/vasodilation is alternating and blood is pulsing to and from the extremities. Believe me you will feel it in your fingers, toes and scalp. Ladies, I am told a cold water rinse with hair closes the cuticle and my South American female followers SWEAR this tightens the buns and skin – I don’t know, but it’s a bonus if true. What you will find is a very perceptible increase in mood and well being – this boosts the endorphins and gives a great morning rush. It also will slowly mute your response to sudden cold, be it opening the shower door, the office door, or cool water. Your body eventually doesn’t panic in the “fight or flight” sense to sudden cold exposure and that helps with overall comfort.
As well, I think this is superior to just cold showers if that’s already your thing. The constrict/dilate method is additionally a great way to alleviate post workout soreness. Here is the modification I would make: fill the tub with cold tap water before you do this and then sit in that after the 10-20-10x for 5-10 minutes – need to submerge farther for upper body workout. Even without ice, you will see a significant difference in following and next day in soreness – even if you are just starting to exercise.
Glove before sweater, make you look better.
So this brings me to my final couple of observations. Don’t be afraid of cool temperatures. I am not suggesting you go out and brave dangerous cold levels (0C/32F air and 16C/60F water are the lower limits in my book), but do the reverse of common layering with skiing – bring your layers WITH you and layer as necessary; don’t wear them and remove when too hot. Are you really going to freeze walking from the house to the car…in the garage? What about from your parking space to the warm office building? How do we dress different in summer and winter when the environments we inhabit are virtually the same?
These small times of exposure both condition you and as we have seen today have real, measurable effects on your overall metabolic pathways. Drop the thermostat a bit – it doesn’t take extreme and you will get used to it. This isn’t extreme as I have been suggesting for a few years and we don’t need super-human feats of ice endurance, not even Wim believes this as the champion of champions on the subject. What I want everyone to do if you want to get in touch with the real biological self is expose yourself to the seasons, they matter. If you live in an extremely mild climate, then invent them.
Remember, the only species that get sick and chronically ill are us and the pets we keep warm and fed: they get the same diseases and struggle with obesity. It’s not their little doggie/kittie treadmills and the amount of “protein” in their food – it’s chronic overnutrition. Animals conserver and so did our ancestors, despite what your rope climbing, tire-tossing, five-toed shoe friends want to believe. I see consistently .6-.8 lbs a day loss in my clients with no exercise. Sorry again for the long delay. I am sure there will be a lot of discussion.
I don’t want to debate diet at the moment, so let’s stick to the subject and be respectful – I am thrilled that our many comments have avoided the trash-talk elsewhere. Have you been doing contrast showers for a while? Let us know your experience?
As always, I’m not selling books, supplements, or bad ideas and I self-fund my research, so if you like this PLEASE donate and perhaps consider a regular contribution. It’s appreciated and all of it goes to my mid-life crisis metabolic lab, gadgets and historical textbooks.
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References
(1) Guarente, Leonard. “Mitochondria—a nexus for aging, calorie restriction, and sirtuins?.” Cell 132.2 (2008): 171-176.
(2) Haigis, Marcia C., and Leonard P. Guarente. “Mammalian sirtuins—emerging roles in physiology, aging, and calorie restriction.” Genes & development 20.21 (2006): 2913-2921.
(3) Koubova, Jana, and Leonard Guarente. “How does calorie restriction work?.” Genes & development 17.3 (2003): 313-321.
(4) Tachibana, Masahito, et al. “Mitochondrial gene replacement in primate offspring and embryonic stem cells.” Nature 461.7262 (2009): 367-372.
(5) Fujita, Jun. “Cold shock response in mammalian cells.” J Mol Microbiol Biotechnol 1.2 (1999): 243-255.
(6) Wijers, Sander LJ, et al. “Human skeletal muscle mitochondrial uncoupling is associated with cold induced adaptive thermogenesis.” PLoS One 3.3 (2008): e1777.
(7) van der Lans, Anouk AJJ, et al. “Cold acclimation recruits human brown fat and increases nonshivering thermogenesis.” The Journal of clinical investigation 123.8 (2013): 3395.
(8) Yoneshiro, Takeshi, et al. “Recruited brown adipose tissue as an antiobesity agent in humans.” The Journal of clinical investigation 123.8 (2013): 3404.
(9) Prentice, Andrew M., et al. “High levels of energy expenditure in obese women.” British medical journal (Clinical research ed.) 292.6526 (1986): 983.
(10) Pontzer, Herman, et al. “Hunter-gatherer energetics and human obesity.” Plos one 7.7 (2012): e40503.








Glad to have you back as the temperatures drop and I hear more complaints about “how cold it is” at my children’s playgrounds and soccer games. Of course this is all from the adults. The kids are typically warm until they stop running around.
Sit Down (don’t move), Be quiet (don’t question), Finish your plate (eat when you’re full), and put your coat on (over layer). We teach them and they apparently comply. Must be genetics. LOL
Ray
I am finally becoming convinced. I’ll let you know how it goes. I do have chronic viral & bacterial infections, so I might not be able to get down to 60 degrees on flare-up days. But who knows, maybe this will help that, too.
It should be interesting…It seems that the overall immune system is boosted by mild cold stress. Certainly inflammation is reduced. Keep us posted.
Ray
Thank you for this! Tons of solid research, and good logic. I especially enjoyed the bit near the end of, do you really need a coat, going between the house to the car…in the garage? People rag on me all the time for not wearing a coat, but really, it’s more effort than it’s worth, and I’m likely to lose it wherever I’m going anyway. Glad it turns out I’m doing myself some good!
Just take it along with you… I have a pair of gloves and earbags that go one BEFORE the warm coat. If my hands and ears are warm, the rest seems to adjust okay.
Ray
I naturally do quite a bit of this in terms of not wearing coats or overheating my house. I think my real problem is that eating thing you mentioned. : )
oh yeah. that part.
🙂
Ray
Great article Ray! Quick question – So if I wanted to lose that .6-.8 lbs per day, what would be the most efficient cold exposure method to achieve this?
For instance if I wanted to focus on utilizing a bathtub full of water, what temperature should it be and how long should I stay in it? I’m 195lbs and 5’11” and average build.
Thanks again for the great info!
Best
Adam
cold stress will basically help with overall well being and some obvious boosts. The real goal is to get the calorie count down and I’ll be addressing that in another post. for now you can stick to the foods outlined for example in Eat to Live (joel fuhrman) or follow a nutrient dense, calorie poor diet. Key is adequate nutrients, not excessive.
Ray
Hints on lowering the calorie count:
– avoid eating as much fat as possible, no butter, no frying oil, no dairy, no eggs, no meats…
– replace missing meats with beans, legumes, tofu, etc.
Suggested blogs along the line of Joel Fuhrman:
Veronica Grace at Low Fat Vegan Chef and John McDougall’s “starchivore” approach which is less uber-nutrient dense than Joel Fuhrman’s. He has a newsletter with menus, archived recipes, etc.
Overall, look to vegan recipes, or whether Mark Bittman’s “Vegan Before Six” or “meatless monday’s”.
Calorie poor doesn’t have to mean “stomach growling.” Just avoid adding refined sugars and oils. And since meat, even the leanest cuts, are full of fats.
Yes, those work.
Stomach growling, light headed, lack of focus, lethargy, irratiablity, or headache are not hunger symptoms: they are addictive withdrawal from excess calories (sugar, salt and fat hits).
Fuhrman, eat to live cookbook is also out.
Ray
Hi Ray
This begs the question…then what are the symptoms of (real) hunger?
Great new article – you are constantly forcing those of us who’ve been here a long time to keep our minds open & not to blindly accept / perpetuate the myths.
Kevin
…Tightness in one’s throat, salivating, food tastes good (increased taste acuity).
Thanks! This forces ME not to do it either. It’s not always easy when going against a tidal wave of popular opinion. On the other hand, when you don’t really care what the answer is, the inconsistent ones seem much more obvious.
Ray
Hey Ray, I’m from Costa Rica. It’s never cold here! What temp should I set my thermostat?
AA
Move…wait, invite me down and I will investigate ways to find mild cold stress! LOL.
Actually cool is good enough. Swimming in water that is between (65F-75F 18-24C) is ideal. I live at ~ 50F/10C winter and 72F/22C summer.
Ray
Welcome back Ray, wouldn’t sleeping without covers be more beneficial and have more impact than just showering contrast style or is the vasoconstriction/dilation more important? That would gives hours of mild cold exposure and don’t be lose loads of body heat whilst sleeping?
Sarb
Sarb: The contrast showers address the “fight or flight” response, increasing mindfulness of your experience and response, and also increase mood, and also increase immune system.
Sleeping in a cold room or without covers may burn more calories (longer time period) than the shower. But, you might also sleep poorly, wake often, and depress mood and immune system. So adapt to lighter blankets, cooler room and you’ll get there. Since you don’t have a bed (I’m guessing) that alternates between “warm and cool”, and you’ll be unconscious when sleeping (therefore no mindfulness), these are separate activities.
In other words, they aren’t meant to address the same experience. Another example would be contrast showers vs lowering your home temperature or wearing lighter clothing in the winter while inside. You might burn more fat calories overall hanging out at the 16C “ice palace” all winter, but you’ll might still “freak out” when you go to a cooler or warmer place without the contrast shower training.
Hope that helps, Jason
Doesn’t sleeping when cold increase your ability to sleep well? i remember Ray saying something about a certain pathway that increases melatonin when you are cold, this also relates to reducing light at night. Also i think he also mentioned sleeping with a light bed sheet with gloves and socks so you wouldn’t feel the cold.
I’m aware how important diet is having read the previous posts and comments, just confused at how much impact the cold will have and how it all fits into things. Is it adressing the ‘why we got fat in the first place?’ question but again i thought that was a fuel issue. I think i might have missed the whole point. Might read the post again.
Sarb
I think they all work. The contrast showers are aimed at conditioning people to not react so violently to cold. They also have a good role when it comes to post workout recovery – especially fatigue/soreness.
That’s why I sleep that way, but it takes an adjustment period.
Ray
Now lemme give’ya a good run for your money. Cold acclimate, you say, recruit your BAT, you say, lose weight, you say? Oh, btw amino acid are lipolytic and glycolytic, so don’t pack them together in CHO (citric cycle) metabolism. Alcohol (ethanol) is rather a different story too. But how about all those skinny people in Africa and Bangladesh? Their BAT is inhibited (by heat), they eat less indeed and don’t have to “out exercise their mouths” but damn, their RQ is high (as high as 1) as all they burn is mainly carbs. What’s up with those no BAT, no fat, heat acclimated guys? Isn’t it better that we acclimate to heat instead to cold as long as we cannot out exercise our mouths anyway? Why walk on thin ice when we can bask in the sun?
Ilya, sources of RQ data and dietary data? If they don’t have hardly any body fat, and hardly any fat in their diet, I can see why their RQ would be close to 1. But I’d like to see the data. To quote Ray, “How would you know that?”
Cheers, Jason
Nayyy, Jason, trust me you don’t have to see the data, it’s basics- fat oxidation -0.7, carb oxidation- close to 1. And they do oxidize carbs, trust me on that too, as there is nothing else around. Unless you wanna prove me wrong?
we don’t use protein, carbs and fat to describe food on this site – I was using them very specifically in the post to indicate macronutrients.
A potato is a complete protein, with a full compliment of amino acids, when eaten in quantities to meet Caloric requirements. Cook white rice can provides up to 71% if the dietary protein for many. While rice is limited in Lys (rice scores 71 to 90% lean beef’s 79, and potato’s 109), So why do people use such arbitrary labels? These are all marketing terms that unfortunately gained popularity in government food-speak by way of the agricultural stakeholders that came up with the system in the first place. In fact, even using these scorings via the PDCAAs is based on the concentrations of the AAs compared to an “ideal pattern” with correction for protein digestibility and misrepresents the true metabolically available AAs.*
And this is not a meat/no meat argument. Cereals, grains, and fruit stakeholders play the same reductionist game, which results in ridiculous TV ads with a breakfast cereal announcing it has as much “protein” as an egg. I’m astonished I didn’t question this sort of thinking long ago. After all, amino acids are the building block of life and only plants make them all. We eat plants or eat the animals that ate the plant, but the indispensable amino acids were synthesized by the plants, not the animals.
That’s just one example and there are equal examples for the others – perhaps the only one we get correct is alcohol. People usually get that one right in identifying it.
So, the people living in the areas you discuss, eating non-westernized versions of indigenous, cultural food (USOs- tubers, bulbs, corms or rhizomes and legumes/cereal) are not “living on carbs” as the world might want you to think. They are whole food. The issues of malnutrition are normally with children, because they can’t eat enough to obtain adequate nutrients. These foods are poor energy sources (calorie restricted) and the western world believes they are what “make us fat.”
I don’t expect their RQ to be any different, other than potentially lower during times of starvation/fasting.
Ray
* Prolla, Ivo RD, et al. “Lysine from Cooked White Rice Consumed by Healthy Young Men Is Highly Metabolically Available When Assessed Using the Indicator Amino Acid Oxidation Technique.” The Journal of nutrition 143.3 (2013): 302-306.
You are confusing a lot of things, so let me start with the broader idea.
First, my point about not out-exercising your mouth is clearly not aimed at a society of normal nourished or slightly malnourished individuals. It is aimed at the vast majority of people that visit this site and are exploring ways to dump excess body fat. In addition, you are wrong to conclude that temperate climates involve no cold stress. Periods of rain, and even nights in dry climates, can produce considerable cold stress among populations in mild climates. I have said repeatedly on this site that I’m not the guy promoting ice-baths.
That being said, in the higher latitudes of Africa, especially in the coastal areas where early ancestors spent significant time, the same climate exists as say San Francisco (cold and rainy periods). To lump “skinny people in Africa” in some sort of tropical, equatorial, sauna, is not an accurate picture. Both cultures have been traditionally exposed to the seasons and don’t live in overly artificially temperature-regulated conditions. In fact, they are the example that makes my point: they don’t eat much because of natural caloric scarcity – that is normal – and consequently they are lean. the calorically excess world we live in is not. My point is that the popular press, many fitness experts, and even medical professionals all believe obesity pandemic is due to a lack of activity, when in fact, actual measurement of modern US/European office workers and traditional hunter-gathers demonstrate, “lifestyle had no effect on total energy expenditure.” * As diets are westernize (calorically dense, nutrient poor) the obesity follows (Bangladesh that you cite has a rising issue with childhood obesity). In fact, those individuals who are overweight worldwide now outnumber those undernourished.
They are lean, because calories are scarce – like every other animal not in captivity. As you probably read in my last post, RQ is a moving number – it’s not like measuring calcium and responds both to immediate activity, postprandial disposal of excess calories, and level of starvation. They don’t as a society have an “RQ of 1” and in fact depending on meals or activities many people go to 1. OF course the reason this does matters from my point of view is that if a person is at high RQ, they aren’t disposing of fat. Since I am writing for people that consider losing excess body fat as the main concern, promoting high RQ activity or meals that drive to long periods of high RQ, doesn’t help the problem. None of this of course has anything to do with the random strings of facts you’ve put together here. I suspect those people will be right in the deadband of every other human when fed RQ ~.85 (50/50 + AA ~.80). And many of them are lower due to reduced calorie access.
As for amino acids, my reason for lumping them and alcohol into the same bin as CHO was how there are handled when ingested. Read carefully my questions, because you are looking at it from the opposite perspective, which may lead to an incorrect conclusion. All of the macronutrients other than fat can be stored in limited/no quantities and therefore excess must be disposed of through dietary induced thermogenesis after the meal. Amino acids (proteins) create the highest level. Whether or not an amino acid is dumped into the TCA cycle via pyruvate (glucogenic AAs) or acetyl-CoA or acetoacetate (ketogenic AAs) or metabolized as ketone bodies has nothing to do with why I lumped them in the same category. That a subset of AAs can be used for gluconeogensis and the other that cannot has more bearing on how people maintain blood chemistry in times of severe starvation, not how they are handled post meal. These are distinguished from beta oxidation of fatty acids despite Ile, Val, Met sharing succinyl-CoA (via propionyl-CoA) as a common pathway to with odd number fatty acids.
It is necessary to separate the losing weight state from the maintenance state (the skinny people), because the biological process of maintenance is completely different than the process of losing. So to bring up societies with limited calorie access to somehow justify heat in areas of the world that are clearly not the same temperature year round isn’t a particularly persuasive argument.
My points are:
1) any human can adapt to *mild cold stress* and there are evolutionary metabolic advantages outside of weight loss (coming paper)
2) if people do want to add extra Calories in the form of “boosting metabolism” for the purpose of reducing body fat, the kinds of Calories involved in NST burn the fuel of choice: fat as compared to shivering (exercise), which expends majority energy via CHO, missing the goal (FAT).
3) I’m not an advocate of the eat fat to burn fat plan. One doesn’t have to eat the storage organ of another animal or plant to burn their own storage organ. Despite that I do understand, thermodynamically speaking, why these diet schemes work. My preference is a sufficient, nutrient dense/calorie restricted diet.
good question. I liked addressing it. 🙂
Ray
* Pontzer H, Raichlen DA, Wood BM, Mabulla AZP, Racette SB, Marlowe FW. Hunter-gatherer energetics and human obesity. PLoS One. 2012;7(7):e40503.
If the part of Africa you are referring to is arid, then it gets very cold at night. I was in Arizona some years ago. During the day we were burning up at about 110 degrees. Then we pulled over to camp and the sun went down. The temperature dropped about 60 degrees. Almost froze, lol.
Good point! My first mild cold stress before I began experiments in Oct 2008 was in Sept 2008 in Tempe AZ.
I was staying there and went for late afternoon run on treadmill (it was still over 100). Finished and decide to go out to hotel pool. Warm was yuk – warm, but when I got out…brrrrrr. I was shivering! Turns out the desert people all Laugh and know this but the water was evaporating so fast that it actually chilled me.
It was an important part of the puzzle, because a few weeks later when stumped on why phelps was eating too much that experience rushed forward and I thought – oh, the water, it’s cooling him down and draining heat.
Might not have ever happened without shivering in the desert at over 100F.
Thanks for reminding me!
Ray
I’ve been starting out with warm showers since the colder temps have hit just because my toes are usually cold in the morning. Then I progressively turn down the temp on the shower. I will try the 10-20 approach and see if that doesn’t do anything different. I also keep my thermostat at 63 just because I find that I sleep more soundly when it’s cooler and have read articles to that effect as well. I do have one question though, what is your thought about the ice packs on the upper back for 10 to 20 minutes?
They will both work to a point. Contrast showers definitely tickle a different nerve. I’m not one for excessive icepacks as I always worry with damaging nerves in skin. Some don’t get cold enough, but I think you can do the same thing with a cooler environment as you really aren’t going to burn that many total Calories in 20 mins. It’s not that it does nothing, but probably doesn’t do as much as longer term conditioning as was illustrated in the papers for this post.
Ray
Typo:
If you want to run faster, jump higher and swim farther – exercise is the solution.
Also exercise, or any “range of body sensory” experience (eg, contrast showers, stretching) can increase your positive mood, increase your mindfulness, etc. Just have fun, don’t do it for the “calorie burn” do it for the height, distance, time, flexibility, etc.
Thanks…got it…there are likely more. WordPress did something when it posted – dropping all of the paragraph formatting and it seems it reverted back to a pre edited version. I think I have them all now, but I happened to be doing this when I had no time to follow up. UGH!
Ray
“The truth is that we all simply “eat” too much.” Another simple truth is that we also and maybe more importantly eat too often and at the wrong time, causing Leptin problems. Byron Richards has done extensive research and written fascinating books and articles on Leptin and how important it is to balance and and keep it balanced in our bodies, not only for weight management but, overall health management. His 5 rules for managing Leptin have completely changed my life. I’ve gone from being the person who couldn’t pass by food if my life depended on it, to having my cravings under complete control for the first time – maybe ever.
You may be interested in some of the articles he’s written on activating BAT including this one where he explains why overweight people have less and how to re-activate it. http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight/articles/the_new_view_on_brown_adipose_calorie-burning/
Yes, I’m sure his plan works, but I don’t think it’s for the reason he’s given. Anyone that has been on my program breaks all 5 of his rules, never plateaus, and isn’t plagued by hunger.
Rule 1: Never eat after dinner.
Rule 2: Eat three meals a day.
Rule 3: Do not eat large meals.
Rule 4: Eat a breakfast containing protein.
Rule 5: Reduce the amount of carbohydrates eaten
I don’t agree with any of this (I used to). This is just repackaged popular diet myths. Not being critical of you sharing or denying your success, but there are lots of reasons people following those 5 rules would lose weight that have nothing to do with his whole leptin hypothesis.
Thanks for the input…
Ray
Although I’m not very familiar with the Leptin approach I will say after a year of “bio hacking” I guess you would call it I have found that even with mild cold stress and eliminating (then reintroducing) exercise I have found that if I consume more than 30 carbs per day I will plateau or gain weight depending on the number of carbs. I may be speaking out of turn just because I am new to this forum but do you agree Ray that there are individual differences in the way the body processes macronutrients?
What’s a “carb?”
🙂
Ray
Touche….lol Ok so I’ve read all the posts and I get it. Restrict calories. But what kind of restriction are we talking? Conventional wisdom states a 500 calorie deficit but don’t eat less than 1000 per day or your metabolism will suffer. I’ve found from my own experience if I eat less than 1000 I plateau and quit losing. I’m finding that my body is very glucose sensitive, could this be the problem? I calculated my RMR and it appears to be approximately 1500. I also calculated the RMR for the weight I’m aiming for and that looks to be approimately 1288. Would you suggest eating to the lower RMR? I’ve also tried a vegetarian approach in the past and I find I’m hungry ALL the time, granted I know I don’t HAVE to eat but when I’m feeling light headed and shaky then I feel it’s probably a good idea. Any suggestions or other articles you can direct me to, to answer these questions?
Rikki
Thanks for understanding my sense of humor and sharing it!!! Let’s play with this a bit. I hope you don’t mind.
Okay, so let’s get a little critical thinking going here. Does conventional wisdom say that or is it simply popular belief? Do either matter? Remember, let’s test our hypothesis, not simply repeat dogma.
Your metabolism isn’t broken. You’re alive. So there is some level that you will lose. Do you think you’ll plateau on water? If a pint if water weighs about a pound (and it does), think you can gain weight on water alone? How about put on more fat?
What does your scale tell you daily? Weekly? Monthly? Same device can give very precise numbers with a wide range of meaning in accuracy. I’m not of the throw it out camp – quite the opposite, but with measurements come the responsibility of interpreting the meaning in the context of the hypothesis/experiment design.
The problem we face when doing these self-experiments/ general observations is lack of experimental design, and frankly, poor execution. Your observations are likely based on careful study, but casual “feelings” about what is going on sprinkled with the boring stuff you read on my blogs and others might impact the interpretation department.
But you can do critical thinking and you know with a high level of confidence that a water fast (don’t use that word with juice or potato, because fast is without food/calorie) you absolutely would lose body fat and continue to lose it until you stopped.
Now, don’t fall prey to the losing lean mass obfuscation. Let’s stick to body fat and one point at a time. Do you (or anyone we deem to be “different”) plateau or not lose body fat on water alone? Our body knows how to use, appropriate, store, and conserve deposits of energy. It’s built into the basic genetic code and I’ll wager no one is genetically predisposed to gaining body fat on water.
Calorically speaking, you likely expend daily 30% or more in addition to your RMR, because that’s a measurement in a fasted, non active state (not sure if you’ve actually measured yours, but it can be done). This is the lowest projected amount you might achieve and when actually measured one is laying perfectly still. To stand up and gently swing your arms can easily add 3-500 kcal to that number. So these numbers that feel precise can fool us into confidence where confidence isn’t warranted.
You lost weight. Your body registered that flux, or change, in an attempt to manage homeostasis and then you resumed eating and the body rightly puts itself back in place. Not surprising.
Are we different? Sure. By how much? Probably not enough that matters. Other than those with severe eating disorders and guided by all sorts of arbitrary rules of eating, I’ve not seen many that didn’t 100% follow the range of predicted loss – especially when we actually measure what they did.
One has to be honest with what they put into their mouths and I’m not talking about intentional deceit. A good friend of mine is a champion slight of hand artist and he takes advantage of the fact our minds lie to us all the time. Even when we KNOW what is/isn’t happening.
So “carbs” didn’t make you fat. Glucose ingested likely added little adipose tissue to your body at all, but obviously the overall diet did. Likewise burning tons of glycogen via exercise doesn’t completely solve the problem either. Eating more fat, the storage organs of other plants an animals, doesn’t push any magic buttons either no more than the fasten seatbelt sign causes the plane to shake.
Any of the people that I’ve actually been able to work with directly (I promise I will be opening up to many more) will tell you that reflecting on these basic fallacies was key to their success. Likewise, when they failed it was a return to obvious old habits that caused it. None of us are different there either.
I know I’ve not answered everything and posed some new questions for you, but you aren’t alone in the pattern of thought and I want to disrupt that pattern to bring clarity.
We can’t cognitively inhibit a biological urge forever. What are the real root causes of our urges? Do we really want to just be “diagnosed” so we can continue the behavior that brought us to dysfunction?
That’s the way I approach this challenge. I hope it helps others to reflect. Think about it.
Ray
Not one for the cold contrast showering (well ok sometimes but not a primary concern) but i love to walk/run in the cold with the dogs wearing training bottoms and a t shirt (with gloves/hat accordingly). Any cold exposure is soon tempered by the rise in body heat and you come home after an hour with a reasonable sweat and a red face.
Interestingly with regards to training i have hovered around 175 lbs for ages now (since your little experiment) but have started doing reasonable intensity calisthenics with 3 mile runs (9-10min splits) 2-3 x per week, as well as the normal daily dog walks. The running part is more to keep my young husky x entertained. I swear i have put on 10-12lbs of lean mass whilst eating the same as normal in 3-4 weeks and dropped a 2-3% BF. I still wear the same clothes except my jeans are loose around the buttocks (tight around the thigh) and my shirts are a little tighter in the chest, back and shoulders.
I thought my weight would have gone down a few lbs, but it would seem the opposite is true as i gain weight, lose BF and gain/lose inches in the particular areas mentioned.
Will you be posting your work on blood glucose soon. I am happy and balanced with the way i am and feel right now but all this information you present for us is just too good and i have no patients to wait a few more months/years.
Good stuff. I plan to put more up on food soon. I’ve just been incredibly busy with the other work.
Ray
Good to hear from you Ray.
This is right on time. I have gotten away from mild cold stress and seem to have lost my cold adapted super powers. In 2 weeks, I will be traveling from Atlanta to Canada for a month. I am kinda worried about Canada in December as that sounds like death to a southern boy like me.
I hope 2 weeks is enough time to use the 10-20-10x protocol to prepare myself for the North.
What if your shower takes FOREVER to go from hot to cold…? Is it better to just do a cold 5 minute shower? Also what temp is “cold” enough?
Great to see you back and producing more thought provoking articles. I have been going a bit further than you might recommend.
I set myself up with a cool tub in my basement. A hundred gallon tank with a 0.5 HP Water Chiller. I started out at 65 degrees F and at first I had the shivers for several hours after each soak of 20 minutes. After a little over 50 days of doing this every day (starting at 20 minutes then 30), I lost very little weight but i did notice a significant gain in muscle. I also did notice the the effects (shivering) did not last very long after each soak so i lowered the temperature to 60 degrees F.
I also started a ketosis diet along the way, to see if i could lose some of the visceral fat but it did not seem to help. I then went to the four hour body diet and am losing weight and size. I am now on the experimentation stage where I stopped the cool soak for a while (a week) to see if it would help with constipation. Nope. I did find that Fiber Lax, Flaxseed and Acidophilus Probiotic did help. I also found Cayenne capsules at Walmart (Capsicum Annum) to raise my body temp after each meal..
I will start in the morning with 55 degrees 30 minute soak to see how i handle it. I did it once before but i felt a little unstable in the legs. With a few days off from work I hope to not look like a staggering fool in the hallway.
I notice I now have a strong tolerance to cold unless i am still recovering from my soak. Right after a soak the slightest breeze gives me a pleasant shiver. In the evenings a cool walk is not uncomfortable.
In a few more weeks i will send in my Thermogenix 12 week spreadsheet and also my excel spreadsheet of notes. I am thinking that by doing experiments, i have more buy in and will do weight management (less eating and more environmental stressing) for a longer period.
LOL – that’s great.
You don’t need to go cooler than 55 and for the time periods you are doing, 60F is low enough. the entire idea idea is NOT to shiver. Shiver burns glycogen, not fat (see part 3 of muscling your metabolism). The reason you aren’t shivering is that the body is adapting and keeping up with the heat. Belive me that sitting in 60F water is pulling Calories from your body. Even at 80F you are in the range of 240 kcals/hour. So you don’t want to shiver, you want to adapt.
What is most important is to not eat for at least 4 hours after – if you can time it and better not to have eaten before.
Look forward to seeing it. Not surprised at all on the ketogenic results. Switch to starch (beans/rice/peas/potatoes) and you’ll see faster results.
Ray
Thanks for the advice. My wife will like the eat Rice comment. She is from the south pacific and thinks rice is part of every meal.
I tend to do the soaking after waking up and taking a cold shower. I will skip breakfast and fast till lunch. There is a potato bar at work that will starch me up real good. Anything with bacon is highly desired.
I will dial back the temp to 60 degrees also.
Yes. 1.6 billion thin Asians aren’t wrong.
Just don’t mix the starch with fats. Potato and rice are not the same as potato and rice that’s been dehydrated and soaked with oil.
Cook it and eat it. You shouldn’t drench it in fat. If you want a *little* salt or spicy, great.
Ray
Any guidance on where to get recipes for the high starch diet? Potato and rice alone can fill you up but will limit where I can go to eat. Beans and Peas are always in my diet.
I see only a few websites that mention high starch diet and none provide any recipes to follow. Any guidance?
Try simple. My argument isn’t that starch is health food. My argument is that whole food starch (in the absence of unnecessary added fat) satiates and paradoxically removes the root cause of issues of blood sugar, as found in T2DM and others.
At it’s root is a simplification of a western diet that drives chronic over nutrition. We live in a society that’s still trying to solve the malnutrition problems that vanished with our ubiquitous access to whole food. Everyone, meat eaters and vegans alike, are obsessed with “nutrition” and nutrients as if it’s somehow a minute by minute emergency; it is not.
My use of a potato was to prove a point. It makes ridiculous this oversimplification that a whole-food starch is somehow a “carb” (complex or not) and as such is aggregated into a whole category of foodstuff that includes highly refined grains and processed sugars. It’s a silly idea and so too is the idea that meat is “protein” and confers some special quality of indispensable amino acids (for the record, all of which were produced by plants – all animals share the same dietary problem). Our reductionist labels for food are so obviously flawed and yet everyone insists on perpetuating this broken idea. It forces otherwise intelligent people to say dumb things. I wasn’t immune either, but now am working hard to avoid it.
If you go back to June of 2012 (a couple of months earlier for my group of private hackers) you’ll see that my point was this is not a quick fix or a body hack. It’s the notion that eating a potato (or bean or rice or >gasp< grain with GLUTEN) really isn't that difficult to do for 2 weeks. It's not going to kill normally healthy person, despite the dire warnings and fear-mongering sales tactics. It will however fundamentally change your relationship with food. It will illustrate how artificially you need to vary up the selection - to be orally entertained, not nourished. It will demonstrate a natural, self regulating behavior of satiation that all humans posses - obese or not, and it will destroy the myth that somehow "carbs" make you fat or fat burns fat or that any food that can truly be labeled with these terms is actually food in the first place. Just bake it, steam it, boil it and eat. It's not that hard, but pick something and do it. If you were on an episode of "naked and alive" a big bag of potatoes daily would be your friend and it would diminish to a show about well fed naked people battling snakes and mosquitos. They'd probably hook-up more often and it would need to move to HBO or MTV. Pick a potato - sweet potatoes are probably most healthy - as if what you're eating now is perfect (likely it's not) and just do it. Sugar won't turn to fat and most people see a tremendous stabilization of blood sugar in just a couple of weeks - on a diet of glucose laden starch - shocking, but so is the unbelievable stories we tell ourself every day having never measured. Keep it simple. It's not that hard. It's only 2 weeks. And if you lose weight an stabilize blood glucose in spite of ad libitum starch feeding (note I didn't say stuff as much as you can - eat when hungry, stop when full) then there's something wrong with the story we all like to tell. I wanted to disrupt. Ask tough questions, not peddle pills, powders, screenings and procedures. It's not that complicated. The science is, but don't fool yourself that blogs or books with lots of journal references are science - mine included. It's hard to publish and get it right, but trivial to blog. I've been working for over a year on one paper that's not even particularly difficult as compared to my other past publications. The standard of what is acceptable is just much higher (unless you're publishing to a crap journal on Beal's list) than a book or blog. Just keep it simple and take notes. No oils, sauces, or sugars. Herbs and spices are okay. Rant over. 🙂 Ray
Cold is your warm friend. Hey thanks for the post Ray. I’m in Salt Lake City area so the weather is getting to the lower 40’s. So far I have adapted to strait cold showers in the morning and it’s about 15 minutes, I would say it’s in the 50° range. Although the pool is closed at my apartment complex I jump in anyway, I’ve measured the temp at its coldest at 55°. I’ve swam in it for as long as 10 minutes at a time. I then go and warm my hands and feet in the hot tub and go home and go about my business. Sometimes I don’t shiver much at all and other times my muscles can get stiff from contracting so much. I can’t do the pool anymore, I think it’s too dangerous cold now. I would do the cold pool at the end of the day, fasted and after weight training. I noticed I could get leaner as long as I didn’t over eat. Mainly I do it to wake up in the morning and it just feels good after. It’s like addictive 🙂 I like the challenge too and when people look at me like I’m crazy wearing shorts and a tshirt when it’s 30 something out is just funny to me. I ask people if it’s cold because usually in just comfortable to slightly nippy to me. comments? Questions Ray?
Thanks Seth
Like the others here, not too cold, but 55 is okay if you stay ahead of it. I know several bay area swimmers that do even longer at cooler temps. Some down in San Diego too. Like I said above, the “runner’s high” is real with mild cold stress at levels not even as extreme as you are doing.
I too laugh when people complain about how cold it is… I’ve stopped talking about it, because I know I’ll get the crazy blank stare.
Ray
hi there, good reading. i live in the alps and it is already moderately cold. i have been living for the last month myself at 15°C indoor all day and when out chopping wood or for walks at around 7-10°C in t-shirt and shorts. now the temp is around 0-4°C so i am shivering and have to layer up a bit.
my point: i am not eating more, actually, contrary to what you say, that cold increases hunger generally, i find myself almost less hungry than before; beside that i am exercising as much as before. i am quite lean with 12-14% body fat, but i would like to define my figure a little more. the fact is that i do not notice any change in my waste line at all after 4 weeks of nst with the other variants more or less being the same. does it work different from individual to individual or shall i be more patient or perhaps is it my real point of homeostasis? i actually would like to lower this point to be around 10% body fat and i was seeing nst as the missing factor to reach this goal.
alan
One has to think about the reasons to go so low. The modern “chiseled” low fat look is probably not ideal, but idealized by society. That being said, your exposure is already good and you know about the adaptation point. You are likely getting enough cold stress, start cutting calories (like skipping breakfast) and you will see the rest go away. Remember, every time you eat or exercise intensely, your body drifts away from using stored fat. You should be able to drop this in no time. You can do the two week rice/bean/potato challenge (pick one don’t vary) and cook without added oils/fats. I think you’ll be surprised.
Ray
thanks for your reply. i do not understand fully the part on exercise. do you mean during when your primary fuel is glycogen or after exertion too?
are you planning a post on immune system pro/cons with cold adaptation as i am trying to adapt more to see how my immune system respond rather than for my appearence.
Thanks Ray, your commitment is tremendous. Not only are you doing important scientific experimentation but your willingness to tie it to the practical and be willing to change your ideas based on what you find is an inspiration. Truly. And then not to sell out to the first big co that comes calling – really truly amazing. I can only imagine that the pressure to make money from this by society will increase as your star rises. Know that there are people out here that appreciate it all.
Thank you, thank you for this blog! I am so excited to have found it! I am thrilled to be able to learn about this very exciting research that your are doing.
I have only been aware of this site for about a month. I started paddling around in my pool every day for 30 minutes a day 3 weeks ago and started the potato diet challenge 11 days ago. My weight is moving down, but not nearly as fast as I would hope. I am down a total of 4.7 since starting the pool time.
I have to admit, even though I am currently on the potato challenge, that I have not given up my cup of coffee with 2% milk in it. Other than that I do consume herbal teas with stevia drops in it. Would that mess up the weight loss? Perhaps I am not spending enough time in the water? The water temp is currently in the sweet spot as today the thermometer registered at 66 degrees. My sense of well being is greatly improved since I added the cool water swim. Is the 30 minutes not enough time to reap fast fat loss? Also, since you say that it is best not to eat 4 hours after the cool water exposure and even better to time it on an empty stomach, would first thing in the morning be best?
Lastly, since I am looking for fast fat loss, perhaps I am still consuming too many calories even with the potatoes? I calculate that my RMR is 1332. Is that a number I should shoot to stay at our under?
Do you have to do the water thing? Can you just do cool air? I have to bike to work and everywhere and it’s getting to be 30-50 degrees… if I’m cold on my rides does that count?
Perfect… cool not cold. You don’t have to be too uncomfortable. You can adjust.
Ray
god, too complicated for me. Still keep it up – just because I lose the will to live reading through it doesnt mean it’s no good 🙂
I think I’d like to go back to basics Ray, like you said, just eat less!! Worked for me. I don’t see the point in making myself uncomfortable with cold (although I agree with you, us “westerners” probably have our houses too warm anyway) I run and go to gym, and eat healthily. At 5″4 I weigh 8.5 stone. When I was over 2 stone heavier I just stopped eating so much crap and started moving more. Simples 🙂
Thanks. I get simple. I am working on simple, but it’s COMPLICATED for me 🙂
cool, not cold. Don’t go for miserable. Lots of people like the techie stuff too.
Thanks!
Ray
Thanks Ray – very glad to have you back and purchased the timer and cover and looking forward to the contrast showers! I echo many of the other stories of success. Your strategies have cost me money lowering my thermostat in the South Carolina summers and saved me a great deal in the winter! It is amazing how much the definition of “comfortable temperature” has changed for me this year.
One question for you: we have a hot tub and I’m wondering if I use it in the winter (which can get into the 40’s and low 50’s here), if I go back and forth from sitting in the tub and getting out of the tub and sitting on the edge in the cool air, could that provide any similar benefits as the contrast showers?
Mine (swim spa – see wired video link on main page) is outfitted with a 121 btu heat pump by AquaCal.com. I think that they should create a smaller unit for just your application.
In mid summer I get way more “therapy” slipping into 70F cool water with jets than in 102F. It’s incredibly refreshing after a long day or mowing the lawn. I think “hot tubs” are way over rated and like sugar and oil appeal to intrinsic desires to the point of ill-health habits.
Remember that cool mid summer is still cool mid winter so a thermostat set at 65-70F on your spa, though warm and steamy relative to the 32F world, is still mild cold stress to your 98F/37C body.
This is the beauty of mild, not extreme.
Thanks for the input!
Ray
Ray,
Thanks so much for responding to my questions, I have found that other blogs and experts I have emailed in the past have not responded so I greatly appreciate you taking the time. You’re right you didn’t answer my question at all 🙂 but you’ve made me think and I intend on setting out on another observational study of my own to see how it goes. Thanks again.
Rikki
If you want me to say you can continue to do what you are doing and succeed, no, you can’t.
If you believe your metabolism is going to crash due to an “over restrictive diet,” the answer is that It doesn’t work that way and this can easily be verified/measured. Skipping meals does cause “starvation mode,” but that means you burned stored energy not that somehow your metabolism slows and you retain fat. All slowing of metabolism that is reported is a misrepresentation of the the literature, which clearly demonstrates metabolism scales (up/down) with mass. Where intake has an impact is only as it ramps to burn excess meal to meal ingested calories and in fact it does so – even during calorically restricted periods. You can only handle so much in a meal.
Your glucose sensitivity is a symptom of a cellular/endocrine dysfunction and likely result of your current (or near recent) diet. We know that >75% of T2DM are cured after Roux en Y bypass. Similar cohorts of obese T2DM that are assigned to bypass or just the identical post bypass dietary restrictions have exactly the same cure rate. Fix your diet and those glucose sensitivities will vanish (im not sure how you are measuring them – HbA1C, monitor, or finger sticks). If it’s how you “feel” after a meal, that’s not an accurate way to diagnose/assess your problem and you might be trying to solve a problem you don’t have. I’m not sure.
Headache, Shakes, irritability, lethargy, lack of focus, unstable blood sugar are not hunger symptoms – they are withdrawal symptoms and are similar with the exception of severity and duration to the removal of any addictive substance.
Your inability to reach ideal weight is likely an issue of intake, not expenditure.
If you work through some of the critical thinking exercises above, you’ll close the gap on the problems. If you follow a quick fix plan you’ll also quickly return to the starting condition – that’s the way we are evolved to work. Your change to present state didn’t happen over night and any change will require time to become the new “normal.” Go back to the old lifestyle and you go back to the old results.
Help any better?
Ray
Yes, everything that you have said has helped tremendously. I’m counselor and I love the study of the brain, I’ve always known that sugar and other glucose responds in the brain like a drug but until you said it I guess I never put two and two together that if the glucose ingested triggers neurochemicals like a drug then it would only be natural to have withdrawals in the same manner. (Can you smell the smoke coming out of my ears?) 🙂 But what about hormones? You’re right most of my experiences is observational because I don’t have fancy gadgets or doctor’s to test things, but in the past I’ve had all the fasting blood glucose tests, when I was pregnant I had gestational diabetes so I was testing my blood all the time. I’ve also eliminated most processed food out of my diet over the last year and a half and am very aware when I eat something that is over processed etc. If I’m understanding correctly then, Insulin is not the villian it has been made out to be? I read the book “Why we get fat” by Taubes and he talked about impoverished areas which are obese because the only calories they have available are “carbs”. (note: I’m horrible at referencing things I’ve read, it’s possible I’m misquoting or misinterpreting, please don’t tear me a new one LOL). Are you able to speak to that?
I have another idea: if possible don’t use the car, but the public transport instead. You’ll be out in the cold for at least an hour a day waiting for trains and buses or walking to the station…
Also I noted it is different if it is 15°C outside or inside. If this is outside and I’m walking around summer clothes are o.k., but staying inside and working at the computer is not doable with 15°C and I need something like 20°C or I will have to wear more. But I bet even you wouln’t go without a jacket if you face freezing temperatures and you’ll have to wait for the train…
Some is habit. Some is biology. Adaptation is possible, but like running, lifting or soaring – it takes practice.
Ray
Back in Denver visiting my Mom, the early mornings are +/-33F and I’m walking with my wife around a nearby park. I’m wearing shorts, shoes and socks (over the ankle), gloves, compression shirt and wool watch cap. Almost everyone is fully dressed. Most look at me a bit weird. However, I grew up running through this park in similar garb without a problem (+25 yrs ago) in temperatures 10-15F cooler, in snow at times, too.
The walks bring back fond memories of those runs, and today at almost 62 yrs old I still love the exhilaration and clear headedness from the morning walks with my wife. The rest of the day is totally energized. After reading Ray’s post, I’m appreciative of the information. Thanks!!
Thanks Ron!
It’s been in the low 30sF at night and warms up 20-30F higher during the day- the perfect range outside those places that stay tightly around 50/60F around the clock.
I let the house temp rise/fall and it’s surprising just how warm it can get via ancillary heat sources: people, lights, computers, etc.
This morning I woke early, opened the door and turned on a fan I use to bring that cool air inside. Laying still in bed with a sheet and a heavy comforter at the end of the bed (provides weight on my legs below knees) I can feel each slow deep breath in/out.
It’s an interesting mental game to put arms out and force the hands to heat. Of Corse that drives me to almost a sweat under the sheet. But I reflected on how easily comfortable even 200-500 years ago could have been with a sealed home and a central fireplace. Stoke the fire and add a log at night and it drops by morning. Bedrooms were barely heated – hence the heavy bedding. We now heat bedrooms AND have heavy bedding.
To anyone that drives this excess warmth as necessary id point to people’s adaptation to sugar, salt and fat such that a meal without is bland and unpalatable; quite the opposite is true in a more natural state. Because we crave something doesn’t mean it’s needed or optimal. We have many examples of habitual, acquired cravings that are known to be deleterious.
There’s no doubt that sleep is far more rewarding in a cool environment. One just has to get past the habit. To me it brings a similar sensation from a night in a tent camping – Refreshing, crisp mornings.
Ray
Ray, my dad and his siblings grew up in the 40s and 50s in the south, primarily sharecropping. For perspective, he took us kids to see the “house” he lived in for a while. It had planks with cracks between them and loose paneling on the exterior wall. He told us that if the wind blew very much he could feel it in the room. My how times have changed.
I started doing the contrast showers about 2 months ago. I move the water from warm to tepid to as cold as I can stand over several minutes. It was hard the first few times, but exhilarating. I find it easier to move the temperature down quickly by having it hit my face first. At first, I would also raise my hands, if only by reflex to protect myself, lol. Afterwards, a very intense heat would set in for a while, but that has subsided…I assume I’m more adapted already.
Now, I don’t raise my hands during the cold phase, but rather in the warm phase. In fact, I find warmer water on the head and hands to almost instantly warm my core before moving down to the feet. In the cold phase I slowly rotate around 3-4 times. In my rudimentary physiology training we learned that the body has receptors that will “turn off” after being stimulated for so long. For example, when you put on a coat, you feel the weight of it for just a bit, before it subsides into the background. By slowly rotating several times, I get the “shock” of the water intermittently. Not sure this helps, but I like it.
Lastly, I haven’t weighed at all during this period, but have lost inches and clothes are looser. A couple people mentioned I looked thinner. I’m in the process of moving into a new house and plan to incorporate lower temps in the house, along with dietary changes, including more nuts when I feel cold. The nuts gave me almost immediate warmth in my feet a week or so ago. Keep the articles coming… will be money coming your way soon.
Rob
hello again,
i had forgot a question the other day. i seem to be very comfortable to cold in the morning and less and less going towards the evening. at the same temperature or little higher in the evening i feel much colder. i imagine that could be the cortisol cycle. am i right or could it be something else?
alan
same thing is true for me. Where I might be wearing a sleeveless top in the morning, in the evening it requires a long sleeve shirt to not start shivering. Could it be tiredness?
i thought that could be a pattern that others experience. no idea what is the cause
I don’t know for certain. There are a lot of variables. The cortisol cycle itself seems to be variable among people. Then add that wim seems to control his through thought and we have a range of possibilities.
Certainly as the day moves on it could be fatigue. Next time you feel the switch over to that getting cold mode, try a immediate contrast shower and see what happens. It’s an interesting possibility.
Ray
sorry, cold water not for me. i rather wear an extra layer. thanks
Could it simply be the drop in temperature and radiant energy from the sun? Where are you located, and when is sunset? Remember that our bodies don’t perceive temperature but heat flow. As winter sets in, we often wear warmer layers inside even when the thermostat tells us that the air temperature is the same as when we were wearing shorts in the summer months. When the walls get colder, our bodies notice the lack of heat radiating onto our skin.
Also, around two hours before bedtime, our core body temperature starts to drop which is correlated with sleepyness, and thus nighttime. More at TROUBLE SLEEPING? CHILL OUT.
So, what is your body temperature? Is the wall temperature dropping? Is your digestion of your last meal ending (four hours from last meal)?
And when we create conflicts with this (too much light, too much warmth and too little sleep) there can be conflicts that result in all kind of symptoms to include seasonal affective disorder.
Lots to learn.
Ray
yeah, thanks. could be a combination of all. in fact every day is different. now the temp in my flat is stabilized at 14°C-57°F and some days i feel as good as when it was 16. i think this is my set point to feel ok without discomfort, but again i said the same at 16.
my concern now is not getting mold to appear on walls. any idea? good practice would be to leave the windows open, but the air outdoor is too cold.
Bingo on heat flow perception! I live in northern Utah and we are having highs in the low 20’s F here. My husband looked at the thermostat and said he didn’t know why he felt cold at 70 F. I told him because the walls are cold, the floor is cold, the carpet and couches, table and chairs are all cold, so especially when we sit or lie down on them, we get colder. Today is my first read of this and I’m excited! I’ll double up the socks and put on the mittens (even in the house). I find I get cold sitting around when I study, but it is usually just my feet and hands. If I can keep them warm, the rest of me will be fine, I’m sure. The hubby and I also talked bout exercising when it was cooler years ago and that it would probably be a more sensible way to burn fat. Your info backs that up and gives us more to think about. I love that you ask critical questions. I’m excited to read more…
Hey Ray,
Thanks for another great article. Here is what perplexes me. I’m a personal trainer. I’ve seen a number of clients that despite eating a lot less than their estimated caloric needs still add fat to their bodies. An example: a 51 year old female client whose height is 64″ and she weighs 150lbs should have a BMR of 1360 calories, according to the Harris-benedict equation. If her activity level is low her total daily needs would be 1,904 calories per Harris-benedict equation. When I look at her food journal and calculate the calories for the week, her total daily calories consumed averages out to 900 calories per day for the week. So despite being at a calorie deficit she continues to stay at the same weight or worse yet, she gains weight. What is up with this? Even if I use her lean tissue calculation (150lbs x 30% body fat) she still would use 1,171-1,639 calories per daily. I see this all the time. I know you hate the word calorie as much as you hate the macro-nutrient words, so feel free to rake me over the coals for using the “C” word.
What exercise is she doing to offset her calorific intake? Also are you 100% her diary is true?
When we did the 2 week experiment ray was categorical in stating NO exercise as it would interfere with fat loss.
Sorry weight loss, but i’m not sure the actual mechanism to fat loss?
I’ll get into the exercise issue later. We were eliminating variables. Weight loss obfuscates the issue. It’s only fat loss that equates to progress.
Ray
These clients were doing no exercise. Desk jobs, driving to work, and etc…typical American lifestyle. Sitting on the couch watching TV or on the internet in the evening, they have very low activity.
…perfect for maximum weight loss.
Fat loss is a biology of conservation. Using stored energy is biologically rooted in a time of caloric restriction. It doesn’t happen in a time of excessive activity and food-o-plenty.
🙂
Ray
Thanks Brian
It was similar inconsistencies that caused me to spend the last two years on the thermodynamics of food metabolism. I’ll cover a lot more detail in a future post, but here are a couple of “what if” observations for you to ponder.
1) what if her metabolism was as you say and 80, 90, 100% were glycogen/CHO by RQ and she continued to eat fat every day? Where does the fat go?
2) what if her logs are incorrect in quantity and estimation of total calories and fat? Did you know that the fat calories in just two extra tablespoons of olive oil a day is enough to pack on 1 lb every two weeks? I was served no less than 4 with a salad last night and that doesn’t count the oil that was drenched on the food – and none of it was even animal based (read more fat). Double labeled water studies ALWAYS find no discrepancy with ingestion and calories during the week? There’s a BBC doc someone posted on my comments somewhere that illustrate this.
3). The idea assumes calorie in/calorie out and yet doesn’t take into account waste heat which disposes (or not) 80% of all ingested calories – this was my point in my TEDMED talk, but everyone has chosen to focus only on the cold stress – it’s catchy. The food element is far more exciting and hence the past blog posts. Unfortunately the peer-review part is laborious.
So using the accepted model of food: “proteins carbs and fats” I got the same result as you. Ditto, using the “sugar turns to fat” ideas – it always came out inconsistent. That’s why I posed the “potato/rice” challenge in 2012 on the heal of the macronutrient articles. it’s quite incredulous that it’s been spun into a hack to lose weight where high fat/high calorie diets fail. USOs have now been retroactively co-opt as primal (of course our ancestors ate it), despite it being an evil “high glycemic carb” that interferes with the entire ketogenic argument. If you read the carbohydrate posts I get into USOs and their ancestral role along with the significance of the AMY1 gene. Further is the microbiome that’s become all the rage. Take a look back at what I wrote and you’ll see that it’s not presented as an excuse of further broken, but rather as a compliment to the food we eat. They are what we eat.
It’s sexy to imagine our ancestors running through the woods, spear in hand, but plants and tubers don’t move very fast and we are a lazy bunch.
I agree, btw, that excess simple sugars, refined grains and other highly refined oils are a problem. I’m not a fan of drinking human/animal lactation products after weaning with the exception of the rate condiment.
Basically any “food” you can properly call a “protein, carbohydrate or fat” isn’t food at all – it’s a highly refined, processed foodstuff and should be consumed infrequently.
The model you are using to count calories leaves a lot of data off the table. One doesn’t have to eat the storage organ of another plant or animal to burn your own. By the same measure, lean mass burns fat has little to do with the issue – hence fat body builders and football players with plenty of “fat burning lean mass.” They eat too much and so does your client.
I have more coming in a paper to be published and future blog posts.
Hope that helps. We agree you have a conflict, but the data doesn’t lie – our interpretations and biases do… I don’t see an inconsistency in her results and she would see no plateaus if her diet and activity was at a fat deficit. your data suggests it’s not. Her results ARE; our explanation may not be so.
We don’t lose body fat by burning calories. We lose body fat by burning FAT calories in excess of fat calories ingested and stored.
Think about it.
Trust me – I’m not making light of your frustration – it was ME that was in your client’s shoes for 20 years!!!! I just got tired of trying to explain away the inconsistencies.
I don’t have that problem anymore and I’m zeroing on my last big challenge on long-term weight gain as we speak.
Ray
The truth about food – How to be slim https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm1dWjMGeM&list=PLxRDKajSNi0OSn_5f5ZbUC9RXoxICIsF2
Thank you! That’s it!
Ray
Thanks for the reply Ray.
1) the dietary fat gets stored on the clients body as adipose tissue.
2) I assume the client is honest in their food journal. The amounts and food labeling could account for some degree of error. But not as much as 400-600 calories per day.
3) I loved your Ted talk and the presentation at the Superhuman Live Event. I’ll have to revisit them to see what else I can pick up. I agree with everything you just laid out. I think our huge latissimus dorsi make excellent muscles for digging up roots, tubers, and other USOs. I think we were eating raw USO and boiling them before we ever started cooking meat. So would you say that our mistake in the 1980’s with the low-fat craze was replacing fat with all the sugars and that is why low-fat dieting failed? So are we back to low-fat but this time we realize that we can’t replace fat with junk carbohydrates (sugars and plant seed flours)? My only problem is people react to vegetables like people react to cold exposure (see Ray’s picture of screaming lady). Thanks for taking the time to bring me back to its about eating mostly low-fat plant based whole foods (vegetables), not fats, carbohydrates, and protein.
You’re definitely thinking, but it might not be as draconian as it sounds. I’m saying what one does to lose excess pounds built up over years of neglect is quite different than how the body lives day to day and avoids gaining them in the first place.
Our dogma puts it all in the same category, sprinkles organic chemistry terminology that does nothing for helping to make correct meal choices, and adds the burden that the problem is somehow related to inactivity. Invoking the very terminology you use re-asserts the problem. Is low fat 30%, 20%, 10% or 1-3%? Does it matter for a short term? It’s like people going on about vitamin D or B12 as if one gets into these conditions overnight and then at the same time popping hands full of vitamins on a diet replete with excess nutrition.
As you know, most “diet studies” on all sides are woefully unproductive. It costs too much to run, there are no ROIs on the investment, and they often incorrectly use the same labeling gaffes equating starch and sugar, assuming a caloric deficit is a fat deficit, and incorrectly asserting dietary induced thermogenesis as something other than what it really is – burning the food you just ate.
On 2 above I specifically gave you an example of olive oil. Go to tgi Fridays menu and compare the burger and fries menu with the salads – total calories and fat calories. I think you’ll be surprised. A person may long and BELIEVE they are getting it right. In my own experience of tracking it is a huge burden to get it right – even with my kitchen next to my metabolic lab. Easy to miss by the numbers you list by oil alone. Again – you’re difference doesn’t show clarity to individual calories. If they are burning CHO as the full deficit (obviously your data suggests they are) then the question is how do I get them to burn fat, not were are the calories sneaking in to mess up my calculations. Of course both problems are likely involved.
Here’s one thing that is key for any successful intervention: creating a fat deficit (usage vs ingestion) is THE goal. And while spending more than you take in creates fiscal deficits, it’s a shitty way to create/account/track a caloric deficit, because there are two simultaneous economies (four if you want to count them all) and only one that creates progress.
Intake is far easier to control, but we’re taught nutrition is an emergency. The truth is that it’s not.
Ray
My bad for throwing the low-fat term in there, but I think people, like I did, will hear your statement, “We don’t lose body fat by burning calories. We lose body fat by burning FAT calories in excess of fat calories ingested and stored.”
And they will remember their failure from the 1980’s they left them fatter and sicker than ever before. That was the basic chant from the powers-that-be. Now it’s the anti-slogan of the low-carb group.
On point 2, I agree that it is easy to sneak in a lot of excess energy from storage organs of plants and animals as well as excess energy from the products made from the lactation of other animals. Point well made and taken.
I agree that nutrition is not an emergency. I am guilty though of having bought into the idea for some time. I’m clear on it now that it is not. Intake is a lot simpler to control, but it is not easy. It takes discipline, preparation, developing a palate for vegetables, and overcoming food addiction. (Insert whining here).
So I’ll take a stab at rewording my statement, “…its about eating mostly low-fat plant based whole foods (vegetables), not fats, carbohydrates, and protein.” To this, ”Eat a diet of whole plant based vegetables, fruits, legumes, and USOs. Eat a limited amount of plant storage organs, animal storage organs, lactations of other animal, and flesh of other animals to lose adipose tissue.”
Right. And don’t mischaracterize the 80s. It was NOT a low fat diet by any measure. It was a “fat-free” (by weight) diet. A food label trick. They are not the same and few were eating “low fat” diet.
They were eating the same amount of fat – for example, fat free soup, that had been diluted with water (same original total fat) and then sugar and salt added to improve palatability. That’s worse than fat alone as we will see.
We’ve only increased out current consumption of calories, particularly fat calories, while masquerading it under the cloak of “good fat,” “healthy fat,” etc. Fat does have a role and in the face of caloric scarcity provides needed, easily absorbed calories that avoid starvation. In a world of malnutrition, that’s a good thing. It doesn’t mean it’s optimal, despite allowing malnourished to survive to the point of reproduction. it says nothing of the impact of chronic disease that happens well after the optimal age of reproduction – passing on genes. Fat and sugar are not “bad,” chronic and excessive use of both as an overall part of chronic over nutrition is the problem. Throw amino acids in there as well, because they (in particular certain indispensable AA like methionine) have been implicated with decrease in longevity.
This a logical fallacy and appeal to nature that’s used frequently to imply that if our ancestors ate it then it must be good. There is important information to be gleaned from our past, but we know very few specifics and since we can measure impacts today, it’s somewhat irrelevant what they ate. Humans and our ancestors could eat a wide RANGE of food, healthy or not, and in the face of starvation that’s a huge evolutionary advantage. That’s right up there with opposable thumbs, fire and tools.
These massive generalizations of food and diet are not only the root cause of confusions (even for researchers), but when one adds the macronutrient baggage on top it breaks the system.
That’s my take.
Ray
“So we have a fuel currency and everyone wants to believe the obesity “problem” is a simple macronutrient ratio. We hear it’s fat. No, it’s protein. No, it’s carbohydrate. The truth is that we all simply “eat” too much.”
-Okay, so why do we eat too much? It’s not actionable to say we should eat less. Willpower is a limited resource; I don’t accept “lack of willpower” as an answer. There are many answers to this question of why we eat too much. What is your answer? Others have come up with answers to this question that involve macronutrients. Taubes wrote in “Why We Get Fat” (2011) the reason is excessive carbohydrate intake and the insulin response it provokes.
I like your “take a cold shower” advice because it’s actionable. I find cold showers far less objectionable than exercise, as I am overweight (male, BMI 29, 22% fat). Also, I find cold showers make me hungrier than I would have been, but not nearly as much as exercise.
The contrast shower you described is too intense for me; I don’t think I’ll try it.
If you find the cold shower acceptable, then I’m confused as to why the contrast shower would be too intense. You’re alternating between warm and cool water temperatures. Not scalding and freezing. As you learn to enjoy the temperature swing, that is by not freaking out, you can increase the temperature range. Just like hot sauce or roller coasters, repetition leads to adaptation, adaptation leads to boredom, etc.
Why do we eat too much? Ray will have his answer. Here is mine: we eat too much because we have been trained to clear the plate rather than monitor our own bodies; we have been raised in a landscape with low-nutrient high-calorie low-fibre foods processed to not satisfy but to make us wanting one more bite; we have learned to confuse “empty stomach” with hunger; we have been confused by macronutrient speak and think we know what we’re eating; we no long cook our own foods; we no longer shop for the raw ingredients; our meats are fattier; our expectation of meal size is larger; etc.
We have been slowly moving away from health and towards disease. So slowly that our baseline is no longer recognizable. This is called Creeping Baseline Syndrome. If it wasn’t for their grandparents my children would not know how fruits and vegetables grow. They would not know why our stores are full of “winter squash” and why it is strange to have strawberries in Canada at this time. (Though admittedly our deck strawberry plants continue to try…)
If you look at the Taubes book, and ask “what is he ignoring in the before and after scenarios” you can make up a list: physical activity, refined grains, refined fats, refined sugars, vegetables, seasonal fruits and vegetables, changes in communities, habitats, and habits, alcohol.
I too once though that Taubes made a reasonable argument, but then I discovered how many other things had changed between time A and time B, which could also contribute to and explain obesity and disease.
In other words, it is not necessary to drop from whole foods to macronutrients to nutrients to micro-physical-energy-spiritual fields. The ocean of food has risen, we have responded by opening our mouths. Many of us have forgotten, or never known, hunger. If we have known hunger, many of us do not regularly experience it as a function of our daily, weekly or monthly, or annual life.
In the darkest, coldest, least food producing part of the year in the northern hemisphere, we pass by ready to eat food on the streets with new seasonal calorically dense options available for a “limited time”, in the stores we find calorie dense treats, in our homes we bake huge meals for family and friends and joke about loosening our belts, we bake cookies, we slaughter the fish, chicken, turkey, pig, and steer and eat, eat, eat.
No longer do we harvest and preserve food for the coming months when travel will be difficult, when food will be scarce.
We can always go again to the store.
Ray,
I have epilepsy that is not well controlled. Over my lifetime (63 years), I have tried every medication there is both as mono- and adjunct therapy. About 2 years ago, I was placed on a modified Adkins diet (the adult version of the ketogenic diet) and it has helped cut the frequency of my seizures. Do you see any problems with this diet? I am not overweight but I am concerned about the long-term effects of this diet.
Thanks,
Paul
Just marking my place in order to get new info in my e-mail. Very happy to see that you’ve posted a new article Ray, it has been far too long. Great info as always. Thanks!
I am extremely excited to announce that I’m beginning my own personal experiment tomorrow to see just how far I can push myself…. After reading The Four Hour Body and doing some follow up research here on your blog and site (which is wonderful by the way!) I’m wholly convinced and confident that I can lose the 20 pounds in 30 days Tim says is possible…Everyone else on the other hand is just fuel to my fire! 😉 It’s very important to me to do this in a “healthy” way and after all of my reading I see nothing unhealthy about any of it for my 21 year old, 5’4”, 148 pound-self. So, here we go! I’m going to use your 12-week log as well as many other measuring and journaling tools to record data and thoughts along the process. Thank you for your research and I am going now to give my contribution because I truly believe the mass public needs to know about this research sooner than later. Thank you, again.
Loryn
Hey Ray,
Forgive me if you’ve already covered this in either the article or the responses (at work at the moment and cannot read it all), this morning I walked in 30 degree weather with one thin layer of cotton – camisole on top, arms, decollete and upper back exposed, cotton pants (thin) to the knee with a headband to cover my ears, ski gloves, ankle sox and sneakers. Walked for about 50 mins (and was very cold). The exposed skin “burned” when I was done and could barely move my fingers. I do this often during the winter months. Here’s my question: why do I only begin to physically shiver after about 20 mins post exercise when I’m home in my warm house? It’s like a delayed reaction. Is that “normal”? Thanks!
I don’t have an answer for your question about shivering, but here is a comment on why your hands get stiff when cold:
why our fingers get stiff when cold from reddit AskScience.
Summary: “synovial fluid in the finger joints becomes more viscous when cold,” and “when the core of the arm gets below 10C as high up as the elbow, then the nerves that are controlling the muscles almost completely stop working.”
And, if you want to keep the blood flowing to the hands:
“ALSO I HAVE TO MENTION THE FACE. Turns out you can markedly increase blood flow to the hands if you warm just the facial skin (like, wearing a balaclava) and not even bothering with core, forearms or hands! There is a very interesting thing going on with facial skin temperature: the trigeminal nerve monitors facial skin temperature and can directly initiate vasoconstriction in the limbs if it senses facial skin temp dropping. (It’s as if the body is monitoring facial temperature to get a rough gauge of the weather, as if to make a “feedforward” guess about whether core temp might start dropping soon – whether or not core temp actually has dropped.) This can also trigger bronchoconstriction in the lungs (this issue comes up with winter athletes susceptible to exercise-induced asthma.) Also it can cause the heart rate to drop – this is the same reflex that is responsible for the “diving reflex”, a dramatic drop in heart rate that can occur if just the face is exposed to to ice-cold water. The heart rate drop in response to sudden cold on the face can sometimes be very dramatic – from 80bpm to as low as 20bpm, or even flatlining for a few seconds. Anyway, there’s some intriguing studies that show that just keeping the face warm, and not even worrying much about core temp, can keep warm blood flowing to the hands. See this study for an example.”
Very interesting, thanks for the reply!
Hey Ray,
I’m pretty lean as is. Got my six-pack (In my twenties, hence the desire). I got lean through a combination of three things, of which I would like to send one directly into your thought processes.
First, I adhere to alternate day fasting. Because I found it’s easier to impose a limit after already taking in three thousand calories on my food-days (putting me at a 1600 cal deficit) then to do so inhibiting 800 calories twice over a two day period. I use thermal loading in tandem with fasting. The results are amazing. Thankyou for that.
Now, I find that whether in a fasted state or during thermal loading, the body has the tendency to try and conserve. I find that this state of conservation is absolute torture… inhibiting the better part of adrenaline production (the only thing making fasts and steep thermal loading bearable or even pleasant). So I undercut it by doing a series of 1 rep-max exercizes every so often. I focus on speed and never surpass the phosphocreatine (the initial kick) of the exercise. I refer to it as a neuromuscular jolt. Sprinting in place, trying to punch three times under a second… anything that makes you stress for more speed seems to do very well in keeping my body from going parasympathetic.
Of course the entire program still hinges on me not trusting my sense of fullness on my food-days. I’ve reached my goal a month ago… reverted to regular eating (2300 cal a day) and not gained any weight (save for the glycogen, making my muscles look fuller.) Send me a message if you’d like a picture. And if you find the time, let me know what you think about jolting the nervous system every hour with the ‘neuro-muscular speedwork’.
Finally, one last question. I found dry-mouth a pretty swell indicator of fatburning and I do notice allot more dry mouth during a dip in a 29 degree celsius pool than in air temperture of 6 degrees celcius (wearing nothing but shorts, thick socks and gloves). Thoughts?
I would argue that a ketogenic diet with pastured eggs and grassfed beef will lend itself to eating less.
This has been my experience and there is some good science on the neuro protective effect of ketones on the brain.
2 weeks on a ketogenic diet and you will stop caring about food and be able to go many hours without eating because you are no longer a sugar burner. It is also highly antiinflammatory and provides nutrients that are EXTREMELY difficult to get from only plants.
I would also add that eating this way dies not preclude veggies or fruits. I love leafy greens and eat several cups per day. And avocado is a daily treat as well, as are olives.
Digression aside, wonderful article, and my personal experience of wearing an ice vest daily is that your body starts to reshape itself very quickly.
It’s not just about fat loss, the overall health improvements are nothing short of astonishing. And hormonal health (based on what I saw in the mirror with healthier skin and a natural V taper to my back – I’m a dude) seems to be a big piece of that.
Ray, I’d be curious to see hormonal status tracking along with the measurements you are doing.
Great stuff!
Hi Ray,
Have you covered the topic of getting ill? This is always my concern when I try cold exposure.
Also, I’ve become interested in short periods of fasting (think 72 hours) to burn fat – this is something I feel like doing. I find this Wikipedia article interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
It says that after around 24h of fasting our body depletes all glycogen stores and begins breaking down fatty acids as a source of energy. So looks like in order to loose fat faster you would want to be in the state of ketosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis) as long as possible. And maybe after your glycogen stores are depleted, do a calorie-restricted diet of olive oil for several days. This is what I’d like to do.
I’m not a very overweight person (180 lb) but I’ve put on a lot of fat because of all the chocolate bars over past years.
Do you think such a strategy makes sense?
Here’s an interesting article on keto diet http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132598293
You writing style has improved by the way!
Nick
The potato diet sounds a lot easier than fasting for three days and then following up with a low-carb diet. Look up Atkin’s Flu. Shifting your body into ketosis is not a zero pain shift.
Lower the calorie intake (skip meals, limit yourself to eating between morning time x and evening time y, etc), increase your intake of vegetables and fruits by a few factors, drop all animal and plant fats that you can (which also lowers your calorie intake).
This approach is adjustable, maintainable, and reasonable. And thus likely to work in the long run.
Jason
Been busy this last few weeks and have seemed to lose about 4-5lbs by just stopping exercise.
is this muscle canibalism? or something else because it is not like i feel suddenly weaker but there seems to be noticable weight changes far more observable over a short period of time with food intake relatively stable and only changes in energy output.
Where is your next post? Hanging on!
I’m not Ray, but I’ve read lots of studies showing that exercise slows weight loss. Of course, you may not be trying to lose weight. 🙂
Maybe you were exercising too much? And you’re body is just getting a chance to heal and repair muscle tissue and refill glycogen?
Hi Cody,
Weight loss for me is not the issue now. I have been stable with my weight for a period of time but i started doing body weight exercise and noticed a sizable jump in body weight over a month or so. I haven’t been able to sustain my little regime over the last few weeks and that weight has dropped off.
This is perhaps the next step of understanding what happens when you are at a base line and want to add exercise into your life?
What is the weight? Muscle growth, increase in blood,…….. and what happens when you stop? Where does that extra weight go and why?
I love all this stuff, just cant get my head around it but hope someone can help!
Hi Ray:
What are people doing during their 2-6 hour 60* exposure/adaptation periods? Moving around, or sitting sedentary? What is a reasonable target for an ambient ‘cool’ temperature for someone sitting idly at a desk for 3 hours?
Thanks again for your help and your work.
Hi Ray:
This is fascinating stuff. I’m working my way through your posts now. I encountered your ideas through No Meat Athlete, and I’m intrigued! I’m coming to terms with needing to lose 20-30lbs for the second time- lost it about 18mo ago, and it crept right back on. I grudgingly went with a “zone” style diet, 5 small meals, and heavy exercise to lose the weight last time. I liked the exercise but even though the diet “worked”, I never really bought the idea of a magic macronutrient ratio, and counting calories every day made me crazy. I haven’t eaten much meat for over 15 years and never suffered from my reduced “protein” intake.
I’m trained as a medical anthropologist, so as I read your takedowns of accepted weight loss dogma, I think about the process by which people accepted and began parroting it as the truth. Also, the ways that weightloss gurus always complicate and medicalize the weightloss process by making people believe that their body will somehow fail to function properly if we fail to diet/exercise properly. eg- the idea that your metabolism will slow down if you don’t eat enough, that you lose muscle mass if you don’t exercise enough, and the timing of meals to control blood sugar as a weight loss strategy.
Anyway. I’m going to be starting with some version of the eat to live plan, and give mild cold stress a try.
Thanks for your work,
Tera
Very interesting blog. Glad to have come across it. And speaking of Naked and Afraid, it seems as if they plop survivalists down in plant abundant environments yet they starve because they can’t find any meat or fish. I have come to believe that the plant based diet is the most healthy way to eat. So why can’t these people find the right plants to eat and thrive in these environments rather than starve? Is it because we are so blinded by the paradigm that we need protein derived from animals that keeps them starving, or is it just too dangerous to try eating new plants and roots in an unfamiliar environment. I’d love to see a survivalist plant expert on the show that knows what plants to eat and comes away healthier, fitter and in better shape than when they started — other than the sunburn, of course.
I think the same thing every time. You would think after the first puked from giardia, the rest would just understand the plants are way more plentiful. Almost all of these places have starch in the form of rhizomes and tubers. They always have fire to make the starch more digestible.
Sooner or later a plant-survivor will be on there and It won’t be that big of a deal. But I wish I had $100 for Evey time some says, we have water and now we need some “protein.” People you can live off off your fat stores – even a very lean woman at 15% BF and 125 lbs has 30-40 day supply of BF.
Our paradigm of food and metabolism is just broken. Unfortunately the eat meat/don’t eat meat debates further obfuscates the simple solutions.
Thanks!
Ray
Lets drop ray ‘off’!
If he turns up and is in good health it will support his concepts ;-), unfortunately if it goes wrong at least it probably raise him to deity status and more will look at the work he has done.
Lol. No.
I’m not interested in worship and while my work might get a little attention, it would make for a boring show. The cold, rainy night scene wouldn’t be that bad and I’m not going to eat the turtle or the lizard and get giardia.
I’d probably piss off the naked partner and the camera crew from doing as little as possible do as conserve.
But the few shows I’ve seen it seems they’ll run out of content quick. Given a clean water supply, it’s just a miserable 21 days of bug bites and shiver.
Ray
Hi Ray, great info as usual thank you. I’m sold on the benefits of cold stress, but I seem to have inherited my mother’s primary Raynauds issues and I’m not sure how to approach my cold tolerance training. I often take the dog out in the cold British weather wearing a t-shirt and gloves (while others who are fully wrapped up give me strange looks) but I have to wear up to 3 pairs of socks to prevent my toes going numb and blistering after the blood vessels get damaged. Highly frustrating!
I’d like to try contrast showers to see if I can improve blood flow to my extremities (my fingers can sometimes go numb too) but I’m wary that I might make things worse?
Gawain
Actually there is a better approach for Raynaud’s. As long as you don’t have blood pressure issues. I will email you the reference directly – I have to find it.
Essentially it involves every other day with 5-6 applications a day:
You’ll need two coolers large enough to get your hands/feet submerged.
Add water ~40C and sit inside with hands/feet for approximate 10 mins.
Move out to the cold and repeat for 10 mins.
Do it throughout the day as within ~30-50 sessions you should see significant improvement (2 weeks). I know it’s difficult to get a two week straight time to do this, but it works with nearly everyone.
Essentially your vasoconstriction in cold clamps down, restricting flow and doesn’t open back up. Be careful until you get this under control, because you are highly prone to injury with cold exposure.
I have your emails and will send directly.
Ray
Thanks Ray, much appreciated. I’ll await the reference and definitely give that a go. I’ve also been wondering if localised red/infrared light therapy could help.
Hey Ray,
I know you’re busy, so if you could post the reference for other readers (or spouse of those with Raynaud’s) we could look up the procedure on our own, and then try to convince them to try it.
Thanks,
Jason
Hi Jason, here’s a link to the study that Ray sent me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hiD_ixxll5WHZxNnA0VG9xWE0/edit?usp=sharing
I’ve been experimenting over the weekend to get the right setup at home, as you need to be exposed to 10 minute bouts of ~0C to be able to do this. I’m just about ready now to give it a serious go over the next couple of weeks and will report back. Here’s the plan. I’ll be doing 4 sessions a day.
Early mornings and late evenings (when the air temps are colder):
• Floor-standing fan set up in the garage to increase the cold air flow for mild shivering (wearing t-shirt and shorts).
• Fill two insulated cool boxes with enough ~40C water to cover hands and feet.
• Submerge hands and feet for 10 mins.
• Remove and go to a warm room in the house for ~10 mins.
• Repeat.
Any new posts coming soon Ray?
Did anyone try this approach for Raynaud’s?
I’ve been trying to find an approach to have a go at and the two seem to be this one (which is tricky as you need to find 0C conditions multiple times a day) or almost an opposite approach of regularly putting your hands in ice cold water. http://www.raynauds.org/support/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=2361
I’ve also been reading up about Wim Hof as the vasoconstriction is carried out by the autonomic nervous system so it it seems plausible that this is another approach that could help. I emailed him and he suggested his course and starting with hands in ice water.
Whatever one I decide I thought I might try and quantify my efforts and log heart rate, hrv, maybe skin temperature.
Just wondered if anyone else had any thoughts/experience on approaches to Raynaud’s or quantifying it?
Ray,
I don’t know if you will answer this but it is worth a shot. I am having an extremely difficult time with researching fat loss (and losing it). SO much out there and I really appreciate the personal time you put into your blog to answer so many people. I don’t expect a response, as it is not your duty, and understand a busy schedule. If you can, my questions are below.
1) Found you on 4 hour body. Do you have any association with this or thoughts on program?
Tim Feriss’ regimen requires protein but then eliminates many nuts, soy, grains, etc. I don’t understand why if they are protein.
2) This is probably nit picky and a silly question, but in regard to the 10 / 20 x 10, does the time that passes from one temp to the other matter? For example, if it takes a little to get back to warm does that affect the results?
3) How consistently should the shower regimen be done? Per day, week? Will it continue to provide fat loss until it is stopped? What happens when you stop, does anything reverse?
4) You mentioned that this shower should be done on an empty stomach and not to eat four hours after at least. I believe I also read this is a good “wake me up” for the mornings. Does that mean it should not be done in evening before bed? This is the time I typically would do the shower but already have trouble sleeping as it is and don’t want to awaken my self more! = )
Thanks again for your efforts. I plan on donating to your research and hope I may be apart of one of your research studies.
Thanks for your rapid reply. I have to wait for my bank to be confirmed before I can donate. I hope you don’t mind but I have several follow up questions:
1) I know you can relate to how frustrating it is to sort through information to find out what is “correct” and what isn’t. I am here again between Tim Ferris’ program and yours. In regard to work outs, what I am understanding from you is that it is NOT beneficial when you are trying to reach rapid fat loss. (Which is what I am desperately trying to do and have been for years). In other words, we should not be working out at all and only after we have reached the desired point?
2) If that is correct, what are your thoughts on the work outs Tim Ferris provides while doing the slow carb diet? (Kiwi workout A/B) I read that you like kettlebells but you just doing believe in doing them at the same time as trying to burn fat. Should I not be exercising at all at all???
3) How may individuals like my self best utilize the gym’s pool (lap pool) for burning energy to help with fat loss? Can too much cold exposure “exercises” in one day hurt instead of help?
4) You also mentioned clients in your response. What type of clients, how do you obtain them, and what are the costs?
Okay, okay. I think I am done. I don’t want to bombard you. I am just trying to clarify for my own sanity and out of my own desperation! ; )
Ray, any chance of getting a post on the power of tree nuts soon?
Rob
Hi Ray,
Very interesting site and concept. I am a medical doctor working in Perth Australia and I am currently finding all of this very intriguing. BAT and cold exposure particularly so. I have also been doing some light reading and thinking on capsaicin and thermogenesis increasing EE. You comment on the the second article from Japan that:
‘Once again, they didn’t report the more important figure, RQ, which would tell us how much more of this EE activity is actually helping contribute disposal of stored fat. I have first hand data that the cold exposure does decrease RQ over time (moving towards more fat metabolism). It would be interesting to see if that played out here as well.’
I am not sure if this has been covered in this thread (I didn’t have time to read ALL of the comments) But surely if capsaicin is increasing EE then it wouldn’t matter where the energy is coming from – sure, its favourable for it to burn fat for our purposes, but even if its burning CHO it would be a leg up, as you are burning through CHO so the rest of the body switches to fat and ketones. no?
Unless of course its freakishly burning glucose derived from amino acid breaking down muscle to do so… but that doesn’t make metabolic sense and shouldn’t be the case.
What do you think? I have always thought of the progression toward starvation as CHO needs to be used before Fat. If you are burning the first in line, then you move to fat being used for other activities.
Thanks for all the interesting writing (especially your use of research and critical analysis) and causing a change in my day to day life (I have started cold water guzzling + brisk walk early in the morning, followed by cold water shower for 5 mins in the morning and then another at night)
p.s. what do you think about applying cold packs locally to areas of highest density of BAT in the adult body? I think that the tissue may be a little to deep and surrounded by the greater vasculature (i.e. warm blood) to be an effective means of stimulating BAT upregulation – would be interesting to hear your thoughts.
Cheers,
David
I would like to clarify – you would only really switch to Fat after the majority of CHO had been burned through. Not purely use CHO in BAT and Fat elsewhere. (Sorry was a little confusing on second read through!)
On the cellular level the switch comes in the change from shivering (high RQ ATP generation) to non shivering thermogenesis (primarily beta oxidation).
Depleting Glycogen stores is not necessary to switch to fat.
Ray
Thanks
It’s a myth that the body must deplete CHO to switch over to lipids. I see drops in RQ all the time on clients eating high CHO diets.
While ketosis can play a role in fat depletion the general ketosis story passed around to support a high fat diet is somewhat broken. I’ll be dealing with it in a future paper, blog and book. More on that next week.
Thanks for comments.
Ray
Hi Ray
Any new articles anytime soon?
Ray, I am skeptical of the no meat or eggs and the move towards a more vegan like diet. About 10 years ago I cut out meats and high carb foods and was basically eating a vegetarian diet. I exercised about 45 min. a day. I didn’t lose much weight and when I had a blood test done my triglycerides were 484! The doctor accused me of going behind a 7-11 and eating ice cream all the time. After some serious study I decided to add meat back in my diet along with healthy fats like olive oil (which I had avoided all together along with all nuts) and nuts. Six months later I had another blood test and my triglycerides dropped to 150. I came to the conclusion that the body needs a certain amount of fat in the diet. And that includes lean meats.
Yes.
Bad diets can exist with and without meat. Most vegans eat vegan “junk food,” as their motivation is primarily a concern for animals. I don’t find a need to debate them on that as it’s an individual choice and I respect their decision. Often health and nutrition are held up to persuade people to move over to support an ideology when in fact that persuading person doesn’t eat healthful in the first place. That’s close, or perhaps over, the line. In any event, it’s has no bearing on my research or the ability to thrive with or without animal products in the diet.
The terms vegetarian or vegan ultimately aren’t prescriptions for health, but unfortunately the best we have to distinguish between primarily plant-sourced nutrition vs primarily animal sourced nutrition. You are conflating too many ideas here in that I am not an advocate of a low fat diet and fats are easily sourced through nuts and seeds. Refined oils (like olive oil) aren’t much better than refined sugar – fuels without the food package and we see boosts in health only when compared to a relatively unhealthy western diet. For every story like yours there are dozens of others, including mine, that had none of those problems.
There’s really no difference in ice cream and meat + sauce in a blender. Milk is essentially liquid meat. It’s not evil, but excessive “protein” in the diet provides way too many BCAAs and methionine – both of which are negatively associated with longevity. Here’s a simple explanation of TOR and leucine impact on TOR. I believe chronic overnutrition is THE problem, not that your health issues were caused from a lack of something you needed to get from meat and eggs.
Unfortunately it takes hours to respond in any attempt to counter these things contrary to our desires and only minutes to appeal to the addictive core lizard-brain. People like good news about bad habits.
No surprise here that exercise didn’t deliver weight loss. I cover that in Muscling Your Metabolism (Part 3). You were simply on a glycogen treadmill and the marginal extra calories burned are not only from the wrong stored sourced, but are easily overcome in diet. 2 Tbs of that healthy olive oil a day is equivalent to a pound every two weeks.
Ray
Ray, are you getting together in Oregon with another Ray and drinking Mexican Coke?!?
Very curious. I’m off to drink a half gallon of oj and refry my bacon in coconut oil. 😉
Have been doing cold showers all week slowly getting used to it ..starting the 10x20x10 today !
Turns out my father always takes a cold shower after his regular warm shower,has done for years.
Will keep you updated of progress
87kg 183cm 56yrs Male BMI 23.8
[…] is through contrast showers. I highly recommend these to everyone getting started. Check out Mitochondrial Anarchy for details on why, but I’ve included the photo here if you just want to jump right […]
OK, so I’ve read the above article. My background: thyroid is sluggish and weight gain is NOT based on too many calories, eating the wrong types, etc. (I rarely consume more than 1200 cal/day and generally eat to live.) Among a multitude of health issues, I also have a real problem with absorption of nutrients and must include grass fed beef and free range poultry PLUS amino supplements to even try and get close to absorbing enough aminos to function. My base temp is 97.2, I rarely sweat, and I’m literally always cold, right down to the bone most winter days. I have no tolerance for extreme cold or even mild heat currently. I am now integrating NIR Sauna into my life to reduce toxic metals in my body, kill pathogens that like a colder environment, and help me gain a tolerance for heat and to aid in sweating. The $64,000.00 question: How would someone like me integrate cold stress therapy? Would the 10-20-10x work or would it need to be something else given the poor state of my endocrine functions?