As I sat on my back porch early one morning in October, 2008, there was no way for me to realize how this one crazy moment would completely change my life. Over the weekend, I attended a meeting in Philadelphia and on the last night proclaimed to a friend that I was about to do the most odd experiment in my life. I wanted to get to the bottom of “metabolism” and “burning calories.” I wanted to understand why it seemed so difficult to lose a couple of pounds and yet I could easily GAIN a couple in a weekend.
So on the first day of this self experiment, I was sitting in shorts with no shoes, shirt, or hat. I wondered what was it like to be cold? I wanted to see how far I could go. That morning it was 33F/0.5C and the following week (an unseasonable chill for the area) it ranged from 32F/0C-41F/5C. So many things about all of this were fortuitous and not planned. My goal was simple question:
Why do I get cold and what causes me to reach the point where I must seek warmth?
For the first time in my life, I was shivering uncontrollably. I don’t think I’d ever REALLY shivered before. I started writing down symptoms and sensations. I remember at one point my already illegible scribble in my notebook becoming even more unrecognizable and I put the notebook and pen down. Closing my eyes I could feel pain in my feet and hands. My ears, nose and face burned and shivering got a little more aggressive. At first, I could close my eyes and will my shivering away for 10-20 seconds. At some point that no longer worked. My scalp tighten and I felt all the blood struggling to stay in my limbs.
I can’t remember if it was my ears, feet, hand, or face that finally made me call it quits, but I do remember walking in on very numb feet, barely able to open the door and deciding a warm shower was in order. Even as my hand went under the first cold water that came out of the shower head, it was burning warm. The shower faucet was the type that had the temperature preset and there was no WAY I was taking a shower at the normally adjusted temperature – it was entirely too hot. These perceptions of change are something we are all too fast to forget; There are a range of environments we can survive and our body doesn’t sense absolutes, but is driven by change.
What I’ve learned since makes me look back and laugh a bit at how extreme I perceived that morning to be, but not because I didn’t really experience the agony. This isn’t just a melodramatic, reminiscent account – it happened as severely as I remember it. What I have learned is just how adaptable the Human body is to the world around us. As machines go we are INCREDIBLY adaptable. Our simple, one-dimensional explanations of what we might in one moment experience or perceive are often skewed from what we are really capable of doing.
I was just as wrong about my ideas of metabolism back then and I would argue that many physicians, nutritionists, and fitness experts fall into the same trap. What sets me apart now is that I am measuring metabolism weekly in range of conditions and people and it’s opened up my eyes to an entirely new world.
The Beginning
I’ve been reading/collecting/studying physiology, nutrition, and metabolism textbooks from the late 18th century to the early 19th century. The work that was completed during this period is spectacular. What began with the Enlightenment and persisted through the Industrial Revolution was a very profound shift in how we viewed our bodies. Although there had been exploration of what we now calle metabolism going all the way back to Hippocrates (460 BC-370 BC), the progress we made during this ~125 years was simply astounding.
It’s important as one reads these classic papers and textbooks to somewhat immerse in their world. It’s easy to see the debate of the time and it’s interesting to look back with the same clarity that I now reflect on my first cold experiment, and know who’s right and who’s wrong. When we look back 100 years from now, what do you think we’ll find? We didn’t drink enough sodas or protein shakes? We didn’t take enough supplements? Where do we get our “protein” anyway? Was everyone allergic to wheat gluten?
Whether it’s the work of Becher, Lavoisier, or Atwater, there are so many hypotheses we know to be true today, but were highly debated when introduced. Yet, curiosity and perseverance caused these free-thinkers to press forward and conduct experiments and collect supporting data. They challenged status quo and it didn’t always make them popular.
For example, nearly a century past with the world’s greatest scientists all knowing that the reason things burned was due to the “phlogiston” contained within the substance.(1) These “phlogisticated” substances were “dephlogisticated” when burned. The air only had a limited amount of phlogiston it could absorb. Whether it was a candle or a Guinea pig in a sealed container, soon the air was no longer capable of absorbing any more phlogiston and the life, like the candle, was extinguished. We now understatnd from the work of Lavoisier that it was the oxygen in the air that diminished, but for a century, the best scientists in the world followed the phlogistic doctrine.
It interesting that nearly 200 years later, Lavoisier had it correct in his November 19, 1790 letter to Dr Joseph Black at the University of Edinburgh when he writes:
- La quantité d’air vital ou gaz oxigène qu’un homme en repos et à jeun consomme, ou plutôt convertit en air fixe ou acide carbonique, pendant une heure est de 1200 pouces cubiques de France environ, quand il est placé dans une température de 26 degrés.
- Cette quantité s’élève à 1400 pouces, dans les mêmes circonstances, si la personne est placée dans une température de 12 degrés seulement.
- La quantité de gaz oxigène consommée, ou convertie en acide carbonique, augmente pendant le tems de la digestion et s’élève à 1800 ou 1900 pouces.
- Par le mouvement et l’exercice on la porte jusqu’à 4000 pouces par heure et même davantage…”
- The quantity of vital air or oxygen gas that a man at rest and fasting consumes, or rather converts into fixed air or carbonic acid for an hour, is 1200 cubic French inches when it is placed in a temperature of 26 degrees.
- This amount increases to 1400 inches in the same circumstances, if the person is placed in a temperature of 12 degrees only.
- The amount of oxygen gas consumed or converted into carbonic acid increases during the time of digestion and amounts to 1800 or 1900 inches.
- By movement and exercise, the amount is increased up to 4000 inches per hour and even more.
Nutrition. Exercise. Thermal Load. There it is before we even fully agreed on the existence of Oxygen. It might be interesting to note that Lavoisier did this work in his home laboratory and invited scientists from around the world to come work with his equipment. I like that kind of career and I can completely identify with the inner passion.
This was one of a series of letters written to Dr Black in late 1790 to convince him that the phlogistic doctrine represented good observations, but was fundamentally wrong explanation at the same time. Dr Black, a stauch advocate of the phlogistic doctrine, replied a two months later not with disdain, but with gracious respect:
…Having been accustomed, for thirty years, to believe and to teach the phlogistic doctrine , as it was understood before the development of your system, I, for a long time, experienced extreme repugnance to the new system, which represented, as absurdity, that which I had hitherto regarded as sound doctrine Nevertheless, that repugnance, which proceeded entirely from the force of habit, hath gradually diminished, overcome by the clearness of your demonstrations, and solidity of your plan. Although there are some particular facts , the explications of which appears to be difficult; I am convinced, that yours is much better founded than the ancient doctrine…
He goes on to write,
…But if the power of habit prevents some among the older chemists from appreciating your ideas, the young students, who are not influenced by the same power, range themselves universally on your side…
This is how science is ever growing and changes, but these sorts of exchanges can now happen happen in milliseconds in email and instead of published letters (Lavoisier’s letters to Dr. Black were not publicly published until the late 1800s). Lavoisier, unfortunately was guillotined just three years later at the age of 50 for his participation in the Ferme générale, an outsourced tax collection service to the king [Note to self: stick with paypal donations]. It was a huge loss and we’ll never know where Lavoisier’s work could really have ended.
The Raging Fire
What strikes me about the totality of this research is the amount of time and widespread acceptance of the simple notion that man kept warm by expending caloric energy. I’ve had more than one debate with those that should know better, but don’t seem to see the importance of this shift in our daily living environment. Of course keeping warm was an obvious part of life 200 years ago, but we’ve not learned much new to discount it’s importance in the daily balance.
Despite all that, there’s a lot more attention now and more and more people are becoming with both the idea and how it can be used. We have discussed the idea surrounding brown Adipose Tissue (BAT) on several blog posts, and it’s quite the rage in the media, but I want to go back to the BATgirl (Part 2) post.
In it we talked about the implications of not having any BAT at all. We’ve also discussed the idea of exercise induced hormone, Irisin, for potentially creating new BAT, but are there other options? While it certainly can be advantageous to create or have BAT, can anyone, regardless of BAT levels, take advantage of 1) your ability to comfortably adapt to a wider range of cooler temperatures than you might otherwise expect and 2) what mechanisms might be in play when BAT’s not cause for warmth?
Remember, the way BAT causes the heat is through mitochondrial uncoupling – i.e. the cells power plant is encouraged to directly produce waste HEAT instead of ATP for cellular energy. Since every cell has a mitochondrion for biogenesis, can mitochondrion in cells other than BAT be recruited to the causes?
There are two excellent papers I want to share. The first is about skeletal muscle mitochondrial uncoupling from Maastricht University, The Netherlands. (2) I will talk more about respiration calorimetry on the next post, but this study involved measuring the metabolic response in 10 lean men for both a warm (22C) and cool (16 C) environment.
Human Skeletal Muscle Mitochondrial Uncoupling Is Associated with Cold Induced Adaptive Thermogenesis
(1) James Bryan Conant, ed. The Overthrow of Phlogiston Theory: The Chemical Revolution of 1775–1789. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, (1950)
(2) Wijers SLJ, Schrauwen P, Saris WHM, van Marken Lichtenbelt WD. Human skeletal muscle mitochondrial uncoupling is associated with cold induced adaptive thermogenesis. PLoS ONE 2008;3:e1777-e1777







Are you getting to the point any time soon? Seems you have too much time on your hands if you start from antiquity. Curious to see where all this is going.
maybe not. LOL. I have taken on many clients over the last year, implementing everything I’ve learned. Unfortunately, the overall state of health, nutrition and food is a mess and we are bombarded with a LOT of material that is simply inaccurate. I am on a personal self-experiment mission. I’ve learned along the way. At this point, I can repeatably make ANYONE lose about .6-.8 lbs/day without exercise.
the peer-reviewed process is slow, but that is the best we have for now.
Thanks for hanging in there.
Ray
I am fascinated by everything you’re mentioning in your blog, and challenging everything I know about health and nutrition. Though, I too am looking forward to seeing a “Cliff’s List” version of all this advice. A step-by-step program of what to eat/do to lose weight quickly AND to simply stay healthy (“eat these foods”, cold water exposure, etc.).
Thanks and I completely understand. I want one too – LOL!
It’s in the works. What about cooking? I post a lot on food – It would be great to get a good idea how many of you would like collections of recipes? This is a simple way to fund this work and it’s not terribly difficult to do – since I am cooking, shopping, and measuring already for research.
Ray
I concur, I’m looking forward to a “program” incorporating all these concepts. Yes, a recipe collection would be awesome and would be a great way to help finance all your efforts. Yes, I would buy it if it were available!
Thanks Molly…
Everyone, believe me – I am working on a platform now. It’s taken a little longer than I expected and I am glad I waited. What I would have recommend 8 months ago (based on some original work and a collection of work of others – typical in the fad – diet industry) would have been pushed aside.
Some amazing scientists and physicians encouraged me to push much further with my ideas and lent me the foundational academic credibility that I could begin publishing again. That was a tremendous honor and responsibility. I have a completely new site with a forum, infrastructure and hopefully revenue stream to allow me to do this full time.
This is not what I intended to do 2 years ago when I launched this site, but it seems like a great way to pursue my passion. I have set the goal to directly help 10,000 people to achieve their health and fitness goals. I think it’s very achievable. I am not driven by ideology, market direction, or being popular. I’m not afraid to be wrong.
I really appreciate everyone’s support and patience. It’s been a winding road, but we are ALMOST to a place where I can launch.
If I am guilty of holding back a bit and losing some interest and business in order to have one more level of confidence in my work – so be it. What I can say for CERTAIN is that It’s not far off.
How far I can go will be completely determined by this group’s participation and success with what’s put together. It wil be exclusive at first and offered to those that have contacted me, worked with me or commented. Once I know that I can maintain good quality and scale it, I will, but people succeeding is the first goal.
Ray
It seems like the people here are missing the point. You’re looking for solution to the equation, or the magic pill. There are a million “programs” out there with recipes and a list of exercises to do and crap to buy. What I gather that is being presented here is an understanding of the equation so that you can manipulate it how you need to based on what’s around you. Understanding the variables will eliminate the need for lists, recipes, and programs. At least, that’s my hope, and why I keep up my endless reading as well.
I think you’re dead on (at least in my goal). Any of the people I’ve personally coached would tell you essentially the same thing.
If we only memorize steps – and I realize there have to be guidelines, then we miss the instinctual part.
I wonder why no one has to be taught or a quick start guide to be fat, out of shape, or sick?
/)
Ray
Well, one could argue, that children are taught through example and an the North American diet and environment of sugar, fat, salt and processed foods to become fat, out of shape and sick.
Most when young kids are active, fed healthy foods, and catch and recover from infections quickly. But they learn from the adults to be tired, overwhelmed, stressed, and to seek out quick dopamine rewards from manufactured “fat, sugar, salt” edibles. (I won’t call them food.)
Breaking this feedback loop can be difficult, as Ray is constantly learning and trying to tell us.
-Jason
Good article as usual, look forward to Part 2!
Thanks!
…and it won’t be months.
Ray
wow. thanks again for doing what you are doing. I feel like I’m being re-educated.
I think we all are (even me). It’s been gratifying to watch these things propagate through the “blogosphere.” For example, the work I did in late 2011/early 2012 on starch demonstrated some interesting issues that struck at the core of what everyone teaches about “bad carbs.” I purposefully picked a food that 1) was high glycemic and 2) was considered a “carb.” I seeded the idea by blogging about Chris Voi in Carbohydrates (Part 3) in October, 2011.
Did anyone pick up on it? No one cared. Despite the fact that protein-carb-fat speak is what I have been hammering on for over a year, no one cared. Then I decided to drop a comment in June on the all starch (potato) approach just to see where it went. LOL! It’s not only reached every corner of the paleo world – even vegans are now doing it to lose weight. Now the ALL reference Chris Voigt and even he didn’t get it correct (but I love what he did).
It’s great to see people actually looking at the nutritional content of food (potatoes are better source of protein than energy), but it’s taken a lot of perseverance to wade through it all. I like being able to help reshape opinions and disrupt dated dogma.
I have some other big bombs to drop. We are at the beginning of one of them now with metabolism. Just remember – you can not out-exercise your mouth and add to it that exercise nearly ALWAYS slows down weight loss. NOTE: I did not say exercise does not have benefit, nor did I say never to exercise. I said it slows down weight loss.
Lets see where we are in a year… this should be fun.
Ray
It makes perfect sense – if your inner thermostat has to generate more heat in a relatively colder room to maintain the same core temp, then more calories MUST be burned, regardless of activity levels. Thanks the moment of enlightenment, Ray! I just turned my [room] thermostat down.
Oooooh! So provocative. Exercise slows down weight loss? God I love this site. Ray, you are the man.
Interesting article Ray. I am looking very forward to reading “Part II”. When you talk about exercise slowing down “weight loss” are you differentiating between loosing lbs vs loosing fat? My goal, as I am sure is true with most people, is to loose fat and retain or even gain lean mass.
Great Point!
yes. To me weight loss = fat loss. What we will learn is that calories are calories, but not all energy deficits = fat deficits.
There are MANY ways to expend energy that have nothing to do with burning fat and to me, losing fat is THE mission of any weight loss activity.
Ray
If I may suggest, use only “fat loss” instead of trying to use “weight loss”. Almost no one wants to lose muscle, almost no one wants to lose water. (There are exceptions.)
And yes, there are those with “excess fat” who are healthy, eg, they are strong, have good cardio/aerobic capacity, etc, so I also don’t want to see any confusion regarding “fat loss = health improvement” though that is often how it works, as long as your fat loss approach itself does not damage your health. For example, no one suggests we cut the fat off, at least not at home. 🙂
Great post!
“You cannot out-exercise your mouth.” YES! In 2001, post Olympic year, yet still training for the next Games, I “lost it” and ate WAY more than my body needed (binging on processed carbs, etc). Beyond the 35 hours of training we already did, I was conditioned to believe that I could “burn” embarrassing extra binge calories with more spinning classes, runs, you name it. We froze our asses off in the pool too, so cold stress was not lacking. All that to say that I gained weight and battled with my weight. No amount of exercise helped counter the increase intake of food. Our world needs to understand this message in a deep way. The de-programming might not be easy but so needed for its many negative repercussions.
“Imagine 8 clowns on a trampoline trying to play rugby with a greased ball. Its ALL over the place. Standing up, talking, eating exercising all have impacts on metabolism.”
“ALL over the place”…oh yes…this makes me wonder how (if at all) our emotions alter our metabolism, with all other factors equal. Does burning fat/glycogen change depending on the state of mind/emotion? I hope to have your level of expertise dive into the biology of belief/emotions one day, as it relates to METABOLISM.
Thanks Ray 🙂 Keep em coming…
…says the Olympic swimmer 🙂
It probably does in the sense of nervous energy, etc.. but one absolutely cannot gain weight with no food. One’s metabolism operates at the autonomic nervous system level and this involves two main divisions. The sympathetic nervous system causes constriction in blood vessels acceleration in heart rate, and increased blood pressure. The parasympathetic nervous system is involved in slowing heart rate, boosting various gland activities, and increasing intestinal activity.
Stress happens on the sympathetic side and we can use meditation and relaxation to boost the parasympathetic side. I think it IS possible to will yourself sick and certainly, Wim Hof has willed himself better in the presence of intravenous endotoxins. While I’m not in complete control of it yet, I can absolutely change my RQ from 1.0 to .7 merely with thought. It is the same technique I use for warming my body in cold – I just decided to do it with the calorimeter one day and it worked.
I’m still skeptical, but no one has a good explanation for what’s else might be happening. Wim and I intend on doing more work on it when he visits.
Ultimately I a SURE that the long hours sitting in cold water were BIG fat burn times. I will be posting more on this in Part 2 & 3.
Ray
Hi Ray,
Would you mind sharing more about the method that you use to warm up in the cold? I have been increasing my exposure to cool air and water, and I think it would be beneficial if I could learn this technique. Is it similar to Wim Hof’s Tummo meditation?
Thanks, looking forward to Part 2!
Ray – I’m curious about this cold water = fat burning theory. If anything, I’ve noticed that swimmers are not hard and cut the way a lot of lifters, gymnasts and sprinters are (and I’m not talking about the muscle models who dehydrate themselves down for photo time). They’re fit, but their muscle curves are soft. Wouldn’t the body want to maintain a sub-q layer of fat for insulation if a person is constantly exposed to cold?
YES!!! my exact point and question…even comparing our team (cold canucks who trained in indoor cold pools) we were ‘softer’ as you would say, as oppose to the italians who trained outdoor in the sun…
Observations only. maybe factors to consider I’m sure, but certainly got softer as the years yet (and we sadly got used to shivering our butts off in the pool)
hmmmm….
That’s not the point. One cannot out exercise (or shiver) their mouth. No level of activity will make up for an over reactive drive to eat.
It has to be done at the same time. When it is, results are rapid.
Ray
There’s no connection between human adipose tissue (energy storage) and blubber (energy + insulation). We do no insulate with fat – our prime insulation is muscle mass.
“Swimmers,” like any sport, attract people that gravitate to that sport. What is evident in the literature is that energy (heat – not temperature) deficits that accumulate from cold exposure can drive over eating. The same can be said for people that have recently lost a lot of weight, or stored energy (heat – not temperature) and the feedback, redeeming process drives rebound eating and recidivism rates.
The body doesn’t have meters; it reacts to change. If one comes to a new level of heat and remains at that point for enough time this becomes the new “normal” and there is a relief from gain.
The question that needs to be answered is how to most rapidly get to “ideal weight” and then how to most easily maintain that until it becomes the new, normal you.
That’s been my prime focus. It’s been complex, but I’ve solved both issues. Perhaps they aren’t the only or best solutions but everyone loses about .6-.8 lbs/week without exercise – those are water fast rates, but they continue to eat. Activity can resume. I just submit it interferes with step 1.
Ray
It’s probably more likely that mood influences taking that extra bite, the extra cookie, the last drink. And if exercise slows fat loss then desperation at the gym would only worsen this.
-Jason
I had dropped all the way to 250 and have quickly yo-yo’d to 297. Please add the Cliff notes on the diet portion!
Ray had recommended Dr. Fuhrman’s Eat to Live diet plan and it resulted in dramatic weight loss for me. Have you tried it yet? If you follow it you will not have any trouble keeping the weight off. At least it’s a plan until we get further specifics from Ray!
Have you uploaded your results??
would love to see them!
Ray
Sure thing! I stopped logging my results after I got to my goal and wasn’t sure if my data was relevant after the first 2 weeks since I switched from all-starch diet to the Eat to Live diet. Anyway, the Eat to Live diet was very effective. Now that I’m at a decent weight my main concern is eating to maintain energy levels and strength for running and rock climbing, my main activities.
Really? Raw veggies? Fat free? Tofu? Really?
Yes, the “joke” Potato Diet that Ray threw out one day works:
– when hungry eat potatoes
– when hungry eat potatoes
– when hungry eat potatoes
…
– You’re allowed spices. But no fat, sugar, oil, etc. No mashing the potatoes either, you’re not a baby.
Read the article on Guts to Glory 2.
-Jason
Ok, Mark.
you are on the list and you have an email. Let’s keep good notes and you will DEFINITELY hit your goals.
Ray
Any chance that I can get on that list Ray? Over the past 5 years, I have been up and down from 300 to 180 and now back at 220 and climbing! I am literally at the end of my tether here.
Hello Ray and welcome back! I missed your posts. I am very happy to share with you that your new “bomb” about exercise is not very new for me:) It makes perfect sense. It depends on the exercise, but when you train hard it is a big stress for the body wich can be overcome with enough rest and most important enough calories. Therefore hard training + cal deficit is not a good idea. Every hard trainining makes me eat more on the next 1-2 days.
Hello Alex!
yes, I missed our discussions! You always challenge me and that is a GOOD thing! There will be more on this, but for now ask yourself a simple question are starvation and hypertrophy really compatible?
Ray
I really don’t know. If we follow the logic it seems they are not compatible. Muscle get bigger with greater resistance and progressive overload. We cannot get bigger muscles only with food. But can we get bigger muscles without food…..? I think no. We sure can get stronger with less food if we train harder and harder. But the size of the muscle itself, consist mostly of water and glycogen. This is just my opinion, I am not 100 % sure.
We absolutely have to exercise to put on muscle mass. This requires stressing the muscle AND eating. I’m not sure anyone is ever “protein limited” in their effort. If one gets enough calories from food (something that has lived plant or animal), then if enough calories are consumed to support the activity (caloric surplus) there is likely enough amino acid present.
For the most part, protein consumption in far excess of requirement. As well, I think there are many that would say that most people over train when it comes to exercise.
Ray
I read that when Vic Tanny (the guy who invented the workout gyms) found out that raw meat contained Creatine that was destroyed in cooking, he started eating it raw. The story about him sitting on a park bench eating it from a brown paper bag (the way some folks sneak sips of liquor from a similar bag) is funny. I’ve met a guy who claims his muscle tone and size are the result of eating raw meat and not exercise. So I’m open to the idea. I’ve stared at lions (who don’t have gym memberships) and wondered about their muscles.
Robert, lions have no gym, but they do some serious sprints almost every day. You cannot build muscles without excersize. But trying to lose weight by combining cal. deficit with excersize is one of the biggest mistakes almost every one is doing including me till soon!
Alex,
The Big Cat Diary (on the history channel) says the older males do very little and leave the sprinting to the females and the younger males.
Robert, all gymnasts train from 4-5 years old till their 30’s and then retire. Do you think they loose their muscles when they get 40-50 years old?You cannot build muscle while sitting on a desk.
Eating raw meat to get Creatine sounds wrong. Wikipedia says:
“Creatine is naturally produced in the human body from amino acids primarily in the kidney and liver. It is transported in the blood for use by muscles. Approximately 95% of the human body’s total creatine is located in skeletal muscle.[4]
Creatine is not an essential nutrient, as it is manufactured in the human body from L-arginine, glycine, and L-methionine.[5]”
How would “the guy who claims his muscle tone and size are the result of eating raw meat and not exercise” actually know that? Let’s see, he could eat raw meat (dangerous!) and not exercise at all and not have a (known) genetic predisposition to “large muscles”. Is that it?
Or is it more likely that there is another explanation than raw meat?
Jason, I think the Wikipedia is right. the creatine is in the muscle. So I’m thinking, if you eat the muscle (without cooking it, because that destroys the vitamin C and the creatine), you get the creatine.
The reason I’m willing to believe him is I met another guy who said to me, “feel that”. He offered his forearm. So I copped a feel of his forearm. It was very muscular and had very little “give” to it. I then said, what exercise do you do to get that? He showed me the bottled creatine. I said, “but what exercise do you do?” And he too said, “none”. I seem to recall Dirk Pearson claimed something similar of creatine.
Jason,
I’ve been thinking over what you said. And while we’re waiting for Ray to come back from the mountain with the new tablets (I tease), I want to say something about the dangers of eating meat. Cooked meat contains cooked fat. And now something your doctor isn’t permitted to discuss because of his agreement with AMA protocols. Cooked meat contains lipid peroxides. They strip your body of anti-oxidents (including ascorbic acid) and move you closer to patching your arteries with lipoprotein(a) rather than repairing them with collagen (which requires ascorbic acid and Lysine). They just throw up their hands and say “don’t eat red meat” because they know eating it cooked (without enough anti-oxidents) produces heart disease. Eating it raw gives you access to the ascorbic acid in the meat, and the CoQ10 (which the Statin takers really can’t get enough of because of what the manufacturer is starting to admit). And eating it raw lets you skip the lipid peroxides.
I met some folks who’ve been eating it raw for more than 20 years. You’d think by now they would have been exposed to the dangers most people’s potty training warned them of. Or they are not being real with me.
Because I’m getting to the point where I’m starting to believe my own rhetoric, I’m going to suggest everyone read Vascular Repair. It’s on Amazon. I honestly would like to have all of you skip heart disease and not fill the pockets of the folks posing as doctors. I value your thoughts here on the forum, and to have one of you meet early death because you’ve been hoodwinked by the “plumbers” who push the cholesterol theory of heart disease is upsetting.
Lately I’ve been telling myself that trying to hang onto a healthy body is not supposed to be the highest priority for folks who have chosen to work it out on this plane. But old habits die hard.
All the best.
Hi Robert,
My sources of information on the dangers of animal products, including milk, cheese, eggs, flesh, etc, come from http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/. Since Dr Michael Greger is taking his conclusions from peer reviewed publications, I believe that a plant based diet (Vegan) is better in the long run than one containing animal products.
I won’t repeat everything he has there, but just about every way you can think of to shorten your life through what you eat has been shown to be exacerbated by eating animal products (more disease, surgery, medications, COPD, allergies, cancer, saturated animal fat, cholesterol, cataracts, age-related macular degeneration, abdominal aortic aneurysms, weight gain and obesity, diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, spongiform encephalopathies, arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, essential tremor, premature breast development in girls, early onset puberty, female infertility, lymphoma, increased overall mortality, including increased cancer and heart disease mortality. Inflammation, including inflammation of the brain, which may contribute to depression, anxiety, and stress.
“Other contaminants that may be found in meat, fish, and eggs: PCBs, dioxins, ammonia in fast food, anabolic steroids, drug residues, E. coli, banned pesticides, and industrial carcinogens. And retail meat in the U.S. has also been found to be contaminated with “superbugs”.”
It’s quite likely that eating raw meat has some benefits, but it definitely has a lot of risks. They have a summary or two about creatnine also. So given that balance, I’d like to see more science regarding raw meat, especially long term health effects, before considering it further.
And, until a few months ago I probably would have told you that a plant based diet was too difficult or unnecessary. Now I’m scared that every time I cook, eat or serve animal products I’m harming myself and my family. 🙁
hi ‘
all of u said is correct but there i s a tendency of human body to gain weight ( fat ) in winters
can we trick body metabolism for faster ,smarter fat loss with minimal efforts
most people fail in weight loss because it is a 24* 7 process
thnx
sumit
Here is one for you,
As you know i have done my experiments, as you have suggested Ray, and i allowed myself to indulge heavily over the Christmas period and i mean indulge!!!
My weight has fluctuated between +/- 4lbs around 180lbs and it seems to be this 2 week window and that gut stuff (ha) you have discussed with me. Never in the last x number of years have i had a control, of sorts, to my weight.
Don’t get me wrong on Christmas day i must have consumed 14 lbs of food and liquid but within a day or two most of that was expelled.
Now another thing,
In various discussions with other ‘experts’ my 14lb weight loss in 2 weeks was water and muscle.
But i have found that without doing anything exercise like my muscles are more pronounced and actually feel slightly bigger. Even my core is more defined and i cant remember ever seeing that even when as an early twenty something i was killing myself with martial arts.
So i lost fat but is my higher intake of potatoes or rice (i am a veggie with fish a few times a month) actually working towards muscle building or a maintenance of my muscles at the very least and not cannibalizing my muscle structure as i keep being told? Don’t forget NO exercise!
At 176lbs and 5’8″ tall with a 30-32″ waist i must be all skin and bones, however i am not! In fact i was told how i must pack away some calories and that if i was to NOT eat lunch i would faint as i have to maintain my physique. That was yesterday and in the last 48 hrs i have had 4 pieces of white bread and 4 medium sized sweet potatoes (2×2 bread toasted for breakfast and 2×2 potatoes for evening meals).
You are helping to free me from worrying about food and i have gained more time since i don’t worry about missing a meal especially if im doing something fun and just haven’t got time to interrupt life.
PS Recipe book please (one pot bean chilli – amazing)
Lots and LOTS and EVEN MORE great tasting food coming!
Ray
Wayne,
I have had similar results after doing a rice and spud re-set. Had a good xmas break with plenty of good food, drink and beach time and minimal weight gain. Could it be due to increased metobolic rate form 3-4 hours in the ocean (22 deg water) each day and increased long slow activity levels (body surfing, board paddling, kayaking, surfing) or could it be due to adding back into my past paleo diet more starches and calories in general, or was it a gut bacteria reset or is it just the fact that I ate at or just below maintance calories. I dont know.
In your self experiments Ray have you tested RQ rates for long slow exercise at 70% or less Max heart rates versus HIT exercise? or are these just other myths that you will bust
I still have a few kilos to lose and look foward to putting what I learn from you and others in my tool box. Keep up the good work I appreciate it.
cheers
Shane,
yes, I will explain in detail in a later post, but just imagine that a lot of what we do in science, medicine, or even pharmacology is measured in relative percentages.
Not unlike what we’ve learned about protein, carbs and fat – speak, it isn’t that is “wrong” the question is really concerning how managing it actually helps in the real world.
You’ll find elements of truth in all of these things, but we have to put it all in perspective. I am 100% supportive of exercise aimed at running farther, jumping higher, swimming faster, etc… There are so many things that are are not only true, but incredible advances in exercise physiology.
My question is focused primarily on the most rapid weight to safely and healthfully cut body fat. I think it is a travesty that we tell people that are overweight – be it 20 or 150 lbs – that is lack of activity. What this does is bury the very enjoyable things we can do to be active – from throwing a frisbee with your children to a walk with a loved one on a beach – in mindless, sweaty, injury prone repetitions of meaningless motion.
I am willing to be wrong, but it seems that Metabolism, or our modern day dogma surrounding it, is mostly an incorrect world view. It absolutely does make sense to average and to do analysis, but as with so much of modern life, the generalized sound bites are not very productive for weight loss.
My focus is on maintaining the deficit. More results are coming.
Ray
Wayne,
Congratulations.
When the fat cells shrink, you’re losing them in several areas. Below the skin, and around the organs. The shrinking of the subcutaneous fat cells is probably the cause of the results you are seeing, allowing the individual muscle groups to show off, and your skin to slowly shrink and tighten. Everything else is probably just perception and bias. But it sounds all good.
I’m sticking with you Ray, but I sure wish you would get to the practical implications and start giving us specific things to do.
See my other comments. My apologies, I just don’t know another way. This is not what I intended to do when I began 2 years ago with mild cold stress. That part is easy (but learning more every day). What it lead me to, via direct questions from this site, has been absolutely fascinating and scientifically rewarding.
No way I could have ever predicted what I found.
thanks!
Ray
I’m looking forward to part 2, Ray!
Still enjoying your work but my wife thinks I’m a bit mad having lived on potatoes for a week and now reading biochemistry textbook! Please add my name to the list interested in recipes.
LOL! Thanks Neil. It’s not that bad being geek. I’ll be sure to post here.
Ray
Awesome. On sympathetic vs parasympathetic responses to weight loss -most ‘pop’ nutritional literature (more on the energy psychology side) will say that in fight or flight you will not loose weight optimally, because the body wants to preserve-protect. (Now I see that this conclusion probably is falsely made due to the fact that emotional eaters will tend to eat more due to stress…) The chemistry of emotions – does it all come down to what effect the emotion has on the automatic nervous system?
And just like your body adjusted to being ok in colder temperature, do the fat loss diminish the more the body adapts? And the automatic nervous system also self regulates differently?
As far as the protein – muscle conversation, I love the new information Ray is digging up. I’m not reading biochemistry books yet, but I have read and learned a lot from 2 of Dr Fuhrman’s books. End of Diabetes makes great distinctions about protein, fat, etc. A few things I needed to read at this time (and mom is Diabetes free now!)
Ray, I look forward to finding out what (if anything) you end up doing for muscle tone, or performance and how this will all be tracked and measured with all your gadgets. What I’m finding currently with VERY minimal weight training and a version of Fuhrman eating seems quite promising and oh so EASY!
Yes! I’ve noticed that as I have lost on high-starch I still feel pretty strong & not as soft as I have when losing by other methods. Amazing. I am interested in hearing more on this gut bacteria reset, since I feel proper digestive function has a huge impact on mood. Has this been posted on already before? I’d like to add a vote for the recipe book for the kitchen-challenged (or kitchen-lazy?) It is amazing how satisfied I’ve been eating very simply now. I think people would be willing to pay for the program itself as well. Great work!
As always, thank you for all that you do! I am anticipating the next installment because I will finally have an answer for my clients where I can say this is truly ‘backed up by science!” Well worth the wait.
Jules
Ray, have you tested out this starch diet on morbidly obese folks? Or just folks with 15 to 20 pounds to lose?
Cody, it is not the starch diet. Ray used the potatoe in his experiment because it is claimed as a “bad carb”. The key is to eat natural, high in nutrients and low in calories food. It is as simple as that. Eat less (mostly plants and less meat), excersize once a week, swim in cold water and you will be the healthier in your life. Right now I am eating only once, at night. Potatoes or rice with veggies, one little steak with a piece of bread and half a beer. The last week I lost 2 pounds. I am not on a starchy diet, but I enjoy the food and eat less than I burn. You have to look on meet as a “desert”. Taking it off from your diet is not a good idea.
I don’t do a “starch diet” but used this as a simple way to demonstrate rapid weight loss without being ketogenic diet (glycogen replete), independent of glycemic index concerns, and at the same time I wanted to pare it down to something simple to study.
Yes, I’ll report more on success for very large clients (100+lbs). Food always works for every person. When it is all said and done, there’s no way to gain or maintain on a caloric deficit.
The real question is not how to lose, but why you gain. That’s different for individuals and you won’t find it in a ebook or FAQ.
Ray.
Thanks for the clarification.
The potato diet for me, is a wonderful find, because I love potatoes.
I’m trying it Richard Nikoley style, with a bit of added fat, or ketchup for flavoring, and a meal or two per week of eating whatever I want.
I think that lifestyle is as important a factor as diet.
And measuring metabolism is important, and I do believe that the commonly held beliefs about metabolism are basically wrong. I wonder though, how would your measurements play out on someone eating a low calorie diet over an extended period of time while also being placed under a great amount of emotional stress?
I’ve read about the importance of hormones, and that excessive stress, low calorie dieting, and lots of exercise can cause significant hormonal issues.
On some blogs, they suggest the only way to counteract this is to eat pretty much massive amounts of food and sleep as much as possible until body temperature comes back up.
They also say that getting lots of salt and other minerals is important to getting thyroid function and thus, temperature up as well.
What do you think about this Ray?
Thanks Cody
I’ve measured metabolism on one person after 23 weeks and 110 lbs of loss – it was still in the 2200 kcal/day range and shifted towards an RQ of fat (in this case RQ = .76). Even after months of extended low calorie existence and no exercise, he miraculously still had a metabolism and it was still normal. He wasn’t eating fat and he wasn’t ketogenic, but maintained a consistent weight loss of about .7 lbs/day.
He’s not alone, but that’s a good example of debunking the skipping breakfast causing metabolism to crash mindset; he skipped MONTHS of meals.
As for hormones, etc… I think this is related to what we wanted to once call the fat gene – when genes were thought to be deterministic. It’s a food problem, not a hormone problem. I am not saying no one has a hormone problem, but let’s consider the extreme:
do you gain or lose weight drinking nothing but water?
we all know the answer and the fact remains that metabolism never goes to zero (without death) and there is a calorie equivalent that will support you at any given metabolic rate. Here’s what I found interesting over the last 6-7 year struggle. I always seemed to be able to keep my weight stable, but I was 20-60 lbs over weight.
WHy is that? how many times have we been a consistent 10, 20, 40, 0r 100 lbs overweight? Why would it be any easier to maintain your weight at ideal vs obese?
It’s really not. The problem is that once one loses, there needs to be a vigilant effort to keep it down, not a dash to celebrate with pizza and beer.
Hormones are just the lastest focus. It’s always some excuse and it is rarely food. That’s what has changed in the last 100 years. We can come up with all sorts of reasons, but in the end – you can’t out exercise your mouth.
Thanks!
Ray
I can’t reply to your comment below for some reason, but I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I just have many, many questions!
For me, I suspect getting fat was related to lack of sleep, diet soda addiction, and excessive stress.
All of these things tend to cause overeating and insulin issues (which drives the overeating).
I was also apparently born with an enormous appetite. My Mom shares stories of me being ravenously hungry as a baby.
So yes, eating too much makes you fat.
But what drives the eating too much part?
Obviously many, many people eat whatever they want and never get fat. Why?
No one stays thin eating anything they want.
No one eats anything they want and stays thin.
People like to blame emotions, hormones, work stress and many other things. If we give something a label, we can treat it or tell ourselves the story that its not our fault.
How long have you held onto the story you had a big appetite as a baby? You pooped your pants a lot too I bet, but that’s not a problem now.
I’m not making light of your problem, but I’ve now worked with many people to dig deep and make a change. Here’s one thing that isn’t going to work for certain: you can’t eat the way you eat now and lose weight.
Wait, there is lots of literature on weight loss, hormones, and genes. Yes, there is, but look at the pathetic losses some of these studies deliver 5-10 lbs over months. These people are just controlling portions. Portion control doesn’t work – at least not for long.
Yes, you’re driven to eat by habit, acquired appetite, acquired frequency, acquired volume and even hormonal effect of the stuff you choose to call food.
Every person that’s worked with me one on one will tell you that I don’t focus on weight loss. I’ve got that figured out. I don’t believe there is a faster way to lose weight. I’ve got it up against the thermodynamic limits (water fast is about the same rate).
What I focus on for the people I’ve coached is why they gained.
I really understand your situation. I was there. You can change this. There isn’t a magic pill.
It’s food.
Ray
So what you are saying is that we have to find a way to be ok with being hungry for the rest of our lives?
What do you tell your clients as to how to dig down and resist eating donuts at work when people bring them? Or that piece of pizza that your kid didn’t eat? When everything inside of you is screaming “EAT IT NOW!!!”
And it’s not a story that I tell myself. It’s how I am to this very day. I have a huge appetite. I’m literally a bottomless pit. If I knew how to change that, I would. I’m honestly hoping you may have an answer or two to help me.
Also, I was on a 1000 calorie fat fast. Literally. I would eat a single stick of butter and 200 calories worth of other stuff (mostly shirataki noodles and beef or chicken stock) and I didn’t lose a pound for a week straight.
How do you explain that? It’s pretty hard to underestimate how much you eat when you literally eat just a stick of butter and a pack of shirataki noodles. My weight at the time was 350 pounds. I should have lost almost a pound per day.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
Cody…Deep Breath…
You aren’t argumentative and these are GREAT questions. There is no way to shut off the hunger with the foods you are eating. They drive insatiable appetite..
Now, let’s look at the “myth” (one that I propagated before I knew better I might add). At 350 lbs let’s say your ideal was 200 lbs or an excess of 150 lbs of fat. That is 150 lbs x 3500 Cal/lb = 525,000 Calories.
Don’t believe them – A calorie IS A CALORIE.
Now I will substitue real data. Let’s say your RMR is 2200 a day – before you move around, etc.. IF you will look up at at this post, you will see a picture of Rick – that’s where his RMR was – so we aren’t far off. I KNOW, with calibrated, certified gas/volume standards that was Rick’s RMR.
Now 525,000/2200 Cal/day = 238.6 DAYS of stored energy and if we take 150 lbs/238 days = .63 lbs/day.
So now look at Rick’s weight loss. He averaged ~ .67 for the first 110 lbs (May 23-Nov 3 164 days) – that was the day the photo above was taken.
The question is why would you eat another animals fat (butter) to burn yours? This is a pure myth. Just use your own adipose tissue. It didn’t help your appetite – it drove you to eat more.
I won’t go into the details now on what Rick did, but I can assure you i’m repeating it over and over.
These names like “potato fast” and “fat fast” and “juice fast” are all just more ways we tell stories – I want to take those all away. You are eating based on “protein, carbohydrate and fat-speak” not based on food. What I did was put thermodynamics into the mix and while there are several ways to make this work for weight loss, not all are sustainable.
The data doesn’t lie. Rick didn’t exercise other than mild cold stress and some swimming. No – swimming does not cause you to gain fat to insulate he was swimming off the shores of Salem, MA in the Atlantic!
The problem is you were eating the very thing you wanted your body to burn with some mythical notion that eating fat causes the body to burn fat and that’s simply not how it works. There is correlation, but it’s not causation.
Right now this is what I teach the people that I work with one one one. it’s not calorism. it’s not nutritionism.
It is our relationship with food. The story is broken.
Ray
Well, I’m looking forward to being able to do this on myself. If you need any more guinea pigs, let me know. I look at Rick’s chart with great envy.
And thanks so much for taking the time to further explain things. Honestly appreciated.
Looking forward to part 2 Ray.
Ray, good to see the conversation up-and-kicking again!
I had to chuckle on several of your insights. After reading how you began your chill experimentation, it reminded me that as kids we would sit out in the Colorado snowy nights wearing only t-shirts and see who could stay the longest. Blue lips of well chilled finger tips were the only effects. And as I recall, we were acclimated to the cold and could work and play out-of-doors without heavy clothing.
Personally, I like the historical research you’re giving us from the 1700 and 1800s. I suppose the information the Nazis generated, although repugnant and vile, would be interesting to read (although I’m not a proponent).
In December I fell off the wagon and simply didn’t watch my eating habits. Interestingly, I only put on #4 in the entire month and cookies are my downfall that time of year. To bring you up to speed after our last chat: using the potato diet solely to loose weight didn’t work out for me after first loosing #25 last summer. I’m back on Fuhrman’s program of nutrition and negative calorics, not exercising as much as before
(that’ll change as I prepare for a mini-triathlon in July) and sitting with my ice pack regularly.
I’m excited about the upcoming recipes, too.
Thank Ron
If you think about it, that’s somewhat perfect. When we reach ideal, the concept should be what are the trigger points for gain? While so many people think this is some sort of irrational, obsessive behavior, I’m more of the opinion that the insatiable oral fixation of food falls more into that category.
I am adding (above) a little more of a quote from the NEJM article as the next paragraph or so is equally as important:
“Fortunately, the scientific method and logical thinking offer ways to detect erroneous statements, acknowledge our uncertainty, and increase our knowledge. When presented with an alleged truth, we can pause to ask simple questions, such as, “How could someone actually know that?” Such a simple question allows one to easily recognize some beliefs as spurious (e.g., 300 kcal is burned during sexual intercourse).
Moreover, we often settle for data generated with the use of inadequate methods in situations in which inferentially stronger study designs, including quasi-experiments and true randomized experiments, are possible, as recently illustrated (see the Supplementary Appendix). In addition, eliminating the distortions of scientific information that sometimes occur with public health advocacy would reduce the propagation of misinformation.”
We need to add a new process that takes into account where society has moved to: an every increasing access to technology that could collect meaningful and useful data. For example, see Jamie Heywood’s TEDMED talk: Patientslikeme. Like newspapers and news magazines have fallen to placeholders for great pictures, local people acknowledgment and advertising, institutional review boards (IRBs) are at a crossroads. It’s interesting that the intended consequences coming out of the Nuremberg Code was an over arching idea of protecting people from unscrupulous experimentation.
The reality is we have just the opposite: people walking around swallowing olive oil and thinking they are cleansing gallstones, ear candles and the latest and greatest “extract” from the unobtanium bush in East bumblittle, no place. It’s exotic, it has to work. As well, there is at the same time an attack on the scientific method.
At first these seem like an unsolvable conundrum: we regulate studies to protect people and good science can be done, because of the commercial influence and the restrictive exclusion of “_______’s great work.” What is exciting is that I can do work in my garage. I can be funded by people that think its worth the time. I can help people and I’ve had MANY scientists that respect what I am doing and are giving me academic platforms to get the ideas out there. As well, I don’t need to wage wars with ideology. I don’t really care.
Open access science is here and through organizations like PLOSone.org and others. It’s really getting good and while there are lots of “bro-science” bloggers out there, we learn just as much by considering their positions and defeating them with the truth.
I think there are two very strong points to make about Joel Fuhrman’s approach: 1) he really lives this way and is extremely consistent and 2) he’s not driven by ideology, but human health. I am not against people that have all kinds of missions, but you would be amazed at some of the personal attacks I garner for simply standing up for what we know scientifically.
As well, I know that I have helped people personally, when their traditional methods (eating or exercise) did not work and yet they don’t want to make a big deal out of it publicly, because it’s in contrast to the public image/approach they’ve taken. Not my loss…
The history has been fascinating – there is so much incredible truth in what we find.
I have been working hard to get a place where we can get good conversation going, without the personal attacks and unproductive attitudes. That’s going well and we should be able to take many of these comments over to discussion. Most importantly, I want to see us aggregating data. I’d like to help make the transition to the next chapter with significant advances N of 1 style.
Ray
“No one stays thin eating anything they want.”
“No one eats anything they want and stays thin. ”
Ray, I think the above is not true. Every one can stay thin eating enything they want, but they MUST be on calorie deficit!
It has to be:
“No one stays thin eating HOW MUCH they want”
“No one eats HOW MUCH they want and stays thin”
VERY good point. HOW MUCH does matter, but here is the caveat. WHAT you choose to eat is more important than HOW MUCH. Focusing on the HOW MUCH is the way we got into this problem. What Cody is asking about hormonal response/balance is driven by WHAT you eat. So while one might be able to control eating of certain foods for some sort time, it’s a lot like gambling in Las Vegas. Stay there long enough and the house is going to win.
Nutrient dense, calorically poor foods (the kind we find in nature) can be eaten ad libitum – the body will turn off hunger. I’ve demonstrated that with the “potato hack” that’s now all the talk. There are some very good metabolic reasons for this and they ARE related to the thermodynamics of food.
So HOW MUCH is not as important as WHAT, but if “what” isn’t controlled then HOW MUCH matters a lot. I would suggest we statistically lose the HOW MUCH gamble.
Ray
Ray, have you had a chance to see Mat Lalonde’s nutrient density presentation at AHS? It’s available on youtube, I believe?
The most nutrient dense foods tend to be animal foods. Especially organs.
And I can eat a pound of beef steak and still be hungry. I haven’t tried it with a pound of liver, but I have with Chicken Gizzards, and I have the same issue.
So for me, there is something weird going on there. Fat is NOT satiating to me for whatever reason, even if it’s saturated. Meat is not satiating unless I eat pounds of it. My jaw gets tired before I get a feeling of not wanting to eat anymore.
Now, If I eat a giant salad with several varieties of lettuce, spinach, peppers, onions, a little fruit, some cheese, black olives, etc. etc. I feel stuffed afterwords and actually feel really good the next day. But we’re talking an entire head of lettuce here.
For whatever reason, my body rarely “wants” that salad. Which is beyond bizarre. Something is not right with my basic drive to eat. I feel broken, and it messes with my head. I should want the foods that make me feel the best, right? Not just the foods that make me the fattest, the quickest.
So I hear you on the veggies/plant foods.
However, I ate a sizable bowl of potatoes this morning at 7 and am starting to feel hungry again at almost 10. I added a table spoon of butter to a pound of potatoes. Along with salt and pepper. Nothing else. No coffee, no tea. Drank water. I guess I’m just looking for validation that this is normal or expected?
I don’t agree. Nutritionism has failed. Look at the results. The reason for leaness is very easily explained by thermodynamics. Many of the same people (me included” damned “any thing white” or “high glycemic” then after I put the simple test up on a comment and it was cross posted – tubers became the magic, accepted “carb.” There is a reason why I used a picture of a Nail, potato, and termites on my Carbohydrates Part 1 post. I admit it, I was foreshadowing a bit and setting an intellectual trap.
Good news is now “tubers” are on the “approved” list of formally “bad carbs.” Of course they should be, because underground storage organs, tubers, bulbs, corms, and rhizomes, were a big part of our evolutionary diet and big brain. There’s a reason our amylase migrated into our saliva glands.
Here is another good idea to make permanent – craving is a term of addiction, not survival. Wonder what you would “crave” if you were starving on boat adrift at see with plenty of fresh water to drink?
Like any other animals – craving is a term of luxury – ubiquitous, cheap, tasty food.
I eat a lot of different food and I don’t deal in ideology (on either side of the debate). I happen to not like salads for the record.
So I ask you again, if you are trying to eliminate your own body fat, why do you need fat from another animal? Don’t you have enough..enough “perfect human fat?” Do we store a fat that is not good for us to use in times of caloric scarcity? Read the quote up in the blog and asks ome critical questions.
You see, I think the food story has become so complex that everyone is wading around talking about how the watch works…not telling the time.
Ray
Cody, you’ve said the magic words. I believe you’re touching the issue: hunger. I believe my body knows when it isn’t getting what it needs. Yours probably does too.
While we’re waiting for Ray to spill the beans (that’s an idiom), I suggest you read “We Want To Live” by Aajonus Vonderplanits [he told me he invented that name because he got tired of being called “Dick”.
I’m three years into eating what he recommends. It’s not for everyone mostly because we’ve all got our own set of beliefs.
I remember how I felt after 72 hours on it. And it lasts to this day. The hunger went away.
His focus isn’t on living forever or looking like a male model, although when I met the author when he was 63 he did look like a male model; it’s on being healthy till the day you die.
Warning, bad puns to follow.
After chewing the fat with you Ray, I think I have a lot to digest. I’ll graze on your other posts/articles and wait for your next post.
Hopefully at that point, I’ll more intelligent questions and a firmer grasp of what this is all about.
HEHEHE…great!
Did everyone see:
Wired Magazine
Ray
I’m quite impressed to learn how much the Internet has flattened the scientific approach much like it did for Travel and Finance industries and others. As for your tactics and techniques, I see them equal or superior to many of those touted by pharma companies and midnight hucksters. Very very few promoters can stand in integrity and say they have no ‘bone to pick’. You, instead, have chosen to fight ignorance. So thanks!
Ray,
I absolutely agree with your thoughts. I can eat crazy amounts of certain foods and my body will just excrete them, but if I eat relatively small amounts of other foods, they turn to body fat quickly. When can we get to the nitty gritty and have you tell us all exactly what we are supposedd to do/eat so that we can all lose lots of weight and pronounce your greatness?
The body stores ingested fat and only in cases of SEVERE over feeding is fat ever “made.” de novo lipogenesis is insignificant and rare for the most part.
I’m working on several projects. Right now, I am focused primarily on the science background and working one on one with people as I learn. That learning process involves putting some ideas out and watching them resonate, succeed and fail. I wish I could tell you I had all the answers and bam – here it is in a simple ebook. It’s not quite that way.
But I heard your other comment and as many who are here that I have personally helped can attest – I am working my ass off to bring it to more people.
Unfortunately the answer doesn’t come in a perfect “eat this not that” digest. It will be more deep and those people that have succeeded put in the time to understand – I am betting none will have a problem with weight again.
Ray
ok. you woke me up with “only in cases of severe overfeeding”.
I thought it was simply: eat enough starch (avoiding the c word), blood sugar goes up, insulin is secreted, insulin attaches to insulin receptors in the fat cells, and the fat cells create fat from the sugar in the blood. And there’s nothing “severe” about 13 grams of (pardon my expression) carbohydrates.
Please explain.
Promise soon.
The blood sugar becomes fat belief is WAY over exaggerated. It does happen (more in the liver than anywhere),but is otherwise rare.
You aren’t putting significant fat down if you are eating anywhere near your RMR or less – except the fat you eat.
I’ll get into this more in a few posts and they will be much more frequent. I’m starting to get many more donations (they all help) and have been working with groups of 5-7 to walk them through.
I’ve have a system ALMOST in place that will let me scale this to do it full time. In the mean time, I’m working on peer reviewed articles and a few collaborative grant applications that will allow me to take this synthesis of ideas to the academic world.
It will clash with lots of world views, but I don’t care much about changing the “system” only helping 10,000 people.
It’s not the way to fame and fortune, but I live the research I’m doing and am working with some of the best in their respective fields.
Ray
Robert, you sound like me about a year ago. 🙂
I too read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes, or his more accessible “Why we get fat”. Both books present a series of hypotheses, written and researched by a reporter, that the switch to refined sugars and starches is the cause of obesity and poor health.
Taubes isn’t “wrong” he’s just writing about a particular carbohydrate family, the highly refined and processed carbohydrate family.
As Ray comments, when you are eating above your RMR, then weight gain occurs. Which probably happens when you eat refined sugars and starches because they are not “filling”. They are quickly chewed, swallowed, digested…
But if you can stay below RMR, by adding lots of fiber, which you’re going to find in natural whole foods (fruits, stalks, leaves, tubers, beans and legumes), then you probably remain much more “full” or “satiated” for longer after eating.
You can eat a bag of potato chips, and feel good while you’re chewing, flooding your brain with dopamine. Swallow after that last chip and feel dehydrated from the excess salt, greasy from the fat, and perhaps a bit “full” for a small period of time.
Or you can eat the equivalent potato and feel good.
It sounds like what Ray is proposing for his system, is not just a set of recipes or guidelines, but a fat loss stage followed by re-education stage that teaches people how to eat whole foods and keep their consumption of calories at about their RMR. That requires changing habits.
Ray – Great post! BTW, congratulations on your Wired video and article, your lab is really neat! I posted this in my Health Divas blog – together with your fun “mottoes”!
How scary your shivering experience! I had that once too – felt as if there wasn’t enough English tea in London to keep me warm (!)
Re the metabolism myths, I am glad that a scientist like you is challenging common “beliefs” (not facts). The biggest myth of them all: rapid weight loss facilitates weight regain – what a fallacy!
Can’t wait to catch up with you – British ladies would appreciate a dose of your “cool” (!)
Have a great day,
Alex
How do I get signed into one of those groups? I want to be a guinea pig.
Awesome stuff here! But I admit that I am confused. Is it possible to stay slim eating real food of a wide variety and still stay satiated? Because satiation seems to me to be the real issue. Most diets work by creating a calorie deficit but people can’t seem to stand the chronic hunger. A LC diet seems to be the magic pill because it is so satiating…and the LF diet seems to work because of the volume of food one can eat. But long term, both are so restrictive. I would love to hear that once you “reset” your body that you can eat intelligently (avoiding crap) but without always stressing about “blowing” your diet. Naturally thin people never seem to worry about calories…..
Thanks!
-J
J M, there are no naturally thin people. I will tell you a story. I have a friend of mine who is thin all of his wife. We know each other for a long time. When we go out at night he is always eating pizza and beer without stressing about calories and he still has visible abs. I was always saying to him that I will do anything to have the same metabolism. But 2 months ago we went to a jorney for a week and we were together whole the time and . I could see what he was eating every day. I finally understood that he is thin because he was just not eating in calorie surplus. He could eat pizza and beer at night but nothing else during the day.
From that day on I eat less and only real food. I eat once or twice a day, when feel hungry, usually at 16-17h and before bed. Mainly potatoe, rice, steak and veggies. I eat starches and meat. I stopped excersize 2 weeks ago and from then I am in the lowest % of bodyfat in my life. It is very simple.
1. Start the potatoe experiment just for two weeks to detoxify your body.
2. Then loose weight by eating only real food (do not remove meat) and DO NOT lift weghts. Walking everyday is almost a must.
3. When you reach your desired weight, if you want some muscles start training once or no more than twice a week and eat only real food in litlle calorie surplus.
You must not complicate things and do not remove starches or meat from your diet.
I’ll clear it up. Yes, but there isn’t really a “reset” per se. I’m not much of a fan of cleanse, juice, fast etc… approaches. There are a few things that make transition easier, but once you have transitioned, it becomes MUCH easier to manage.
There is nothing you CAN’T eat in the future, but some things will require less frequently than others.
Ray
I’m looking forward to hearing more! Thanks so much for all of your work.
Ok, just sounding out what I think I understand from the above post and comments, I could be wrong and I am sure you will let me know if that’s the case.
A) our RMR varies up and down dependent on what we eat, when we eat, how we exercise
B) if we eat fat or liquid calories it’s easy for the body to digest (?) process so MR increase is minimal
C) if we eat low calorie dense foods high in fibre they are harder to digest hence higher MR. More chance of a calorie defecite and more chance for body fat to be used
D) if we eat lean meats, same as above harder to digest, higher MR better chance
E) you only have to go to sites like myfitnesspal to see that calorie deficits work, the key is to get the MR working for you by targeting the right foods and combinations
bodybuilders drop to very low levels of BF by combining a low fat diet of nutrient dense foods (chicken, tuna, rice, broccoli) with cardio. Low fat, increased MR and daily calorie deficits, but it can’t be sustained long term….similar to all potatoes
What about food combining theories any truth in the Ayurvedic way of eating living?
Can’t wait for a forum/site to be set up and I am super interested in recipe ideas and the mind body connection if it exists. Keep the posts coming Ray
You are thinking a little too much here and still sort of shrouded in marketing dogma (as is most of the nutrition world). I will explain it in time. I think once I take this to the next level it will be pretty obvious. I know some of my clients now are saying – crap it’s right there…Not trying to tease much, but It is so dumb-simple once you see it.
More later on part 2!
Thank you! appreciate the input on forum.
Ray
Just a comment about fat consumption in history: When Lewis & Clark got past the Missouri and into bison territory, the men would hunt, kill and eat meat every day. It was common to eat 4-5 lbs, and yet, the men were losing weight and not staying well. Bison is pretty lean, there were few if any ‘starches’ available and their bodies and minds suffered.
Not sure if this adds to the conversation but thought it an interesting fact! :>}
Rabbit starvation is real. There is an upper limit to protein consumption in the absence of fat/carbohydrate (all used in the correct form). We SHOULD have an Upper Limit (UL) on protein, but unfortunately this was the first, of many to come, nutrients that was used to promote food (beef vs wheat). I will come back to this, but There is an upperlimit on it and I would suggest many more than one might think are tapping on that door every day.
Our obsession with protein is unbelievable and I agree that internet IS flattening the science cycle. I think I have it pretty dial in at this point and I’m just checking my facts twice. In know that I am getting GREAT results from people. I’m awaiting a glucose implant so I can finish my own work.
Ray
Now I’m confused, I thought that excess protein can be stored as fat.
Another thing that been bugging me and if you can answer. When you consume raw natural food along with their enzymes. Your body break them down into amino acids but apparently the common knowledge is that the enzymes in the food help in the digestion and prevents the body’s own store of enzymes to work which can lead to defficiencies if done to excess.
Boom. I’m lovin’ it.
Ray, I understand that exercising to build muscle should not be done in a caloric deficit and that exercising at RQ = 1 burns more carbohydrates. My question is if there is a fat loss benefit to exercising at RQ = 0.7 (I guess walking would be an example)?
Carlos
There are a few other factors as well, but generally I have my clients only participate in leisure activity – IOW if it looks like anything you’d do to “exercise” then avoid it.
Go out for a leisure stroll with a friend or your kids, go for a nice bike rise, move around a little in the house. These small activity bursts are great at adding reasonable energy without squelching fat burn.
Ray
Walking, and especially brisk walking have a large benefit. But when you are close to single digit body fat it gets tricky. I am now close to 8 % bodyfat and when I walk more than a hour a day in a brisk tempo, at night I feel very hungry and that leads to overeating.
Ray, how should I know when to stop loosing fat. I mean I am already very thin, but I still have some fat around my belly, stuborn fat. Could it be a loosen skin, because once I was 220 lbs. I am so thin now and I look like a sick man.
Ray,
Your work is fascinating and I’m awed by your thoroughness and commitment. I cannot wait to see the end result. I literally JUST had the conversation with a client yesterday about how it’s so easy to gain 2-3 pounds with a weekend of “bad” eating and incredibly hard to lose those same 2-3 pounds over the course of a week or two. Where can I sign up to be one of your guinea pigs?!
Hi Ray:
Has any of your work/research looked at improving health in those with chronic conditions outside of obesity? There are a large number of people who battle chronic fatigue, poor sleep, brain fog, weakness … for whom major dietary/lifestyle changes seem to have no effect at all. Have you stumbled upon avenues for that population to explore?
I appreciate all you done. I’ve been a quiet reader of your blog for some time. I eagerly await news of your experiments and results. Thank you.
Thanks Ian
That’s actually the majority of my work and obesity is somewhat an afterthought. I was drawn into this by my own weight struggles, but once I lost it the medical issues like cholesterol and reactive hypoglycemia took front and center.
Once a person achieves a healthy weight, the question remains – how do we live long and die fast? As well are there ways to avoid death altogether?
I think the vast number of issues related to autoimmune-like diseases are rooted in chronic over nutrition. We eat too much, too often and with too much emphasis on acquired tastes.
There are no silver bullets, but I’m betting the solution won’t be found in shakes, bone broth, tofu, or organic. Just because we can eat something, doesn’t mean we should. Being omnivore allows us an adaptive advantage to seek out calorie in a calorie scarce world. It’s not an advantage in a calorie dense world.
Those I coach one on one learn this up front and I think it’s not only important, but a foundational principle for eliminating nutritional induced illness.
Mild cold stress has a role in all of this as well. It was necessary to find peer reviewed evidence that not only uncoupled calorie and cold stress, but found places where there was always overlap.
It will be interesting 30 years from now to look back at the many people that over exercised, over consumed, and over supplemented. Nothing links beautiful physique with long life. I’m not opposed to it, just not sure that always keeping growth hormone at peak levels is a good longevity strategy.
Thanks for breaking silence!!! Gives me ideas of other things to write on. I have a lot of topics outside of cold that are of widespread interest. If all goes well you’ll be reading more of this stuff.
Ray
Hi Ray,
I would appreciate if you could provide any insight into some physical responses I noticed last summer. I believe it might relate to thermogenesis.
I had been getting elevated TSH readings (like between 3.5 and 10) for over a year, but with normal free thyroid hormones.
These were some symptoms I was having:
– Slightly cold fingers
– Vasoconstriction in fingers
– Lack of thirst
ASIDE: The lack of thirst, and I believe the cold fingers also, were symptoms long before I started tracking the TSH regularly, so I can’t say if they were related to the elevated TSH. (Though, I did have a borderline-high TSH reading as far back as 2008, but that was just a single reading).
Now, my lifestyle changed near the beginning of May and I began staying in my apartment most of the day. My apartment was consistently above 30°C (there was no air-conditioner).
I noticed that the vasoconstriction went away. Also, my thirst came back. And this is really weird…but shortly after drinking water, I would always sweat profusely (like, *really* profusely) for a few minutes. This sweating response did not occur when I was outside of the apartment.
I got a TSH reading during this time. It was 0.01…
Now…does this response to the higher ambient temperature suggest that I had previously been under cold stress? And if so, do you know of any reasons why that might be?
I don’t do anything different from anyone else, so I don’t know why I would be under cold stress. However, I *have* noticed for many years, now, that I am able to tolerate higher ambient temperatures than other people.
The reason I believe it might be cold stress is for the following reasons:
1. Thyroid hormone is involved in non-shivering thermogenesis.
2. The body draws blood away from the extremities when cold (hence, the vasoconstriction in the fingers).
3. Regarding thirst: Apparently, under certain cold conditions when the body draws blood away from the extremities towards the core, the thirst response cannot occur because the brain is no longer able to detect decreases in blood volume in the core (since the core now has increased blood volume). See here: http://www.bouldersportsmedicine.org/blog/109313/8125/
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Ray
your work is great 🙂
I joined a group of “walruses” (we call that people who do winter swimming).
Usually they do it like this: warm up – get in the water for 3-5 mins – get out and warmup/roll in the snow – back to water for 1-2 minutes – get out
Recently a guy from Belarussia joined us and he’s got a different protocol – get underwater with the head – get out / repeat 3 times
My own protocol based on reading Wim Hof’s book and your blog is this – get into the water and sit there until I can’t manage shivering – get out (last Saturday 17 minutes)
I don’t care much about weight loss (OK, I could lose 4 kg/9 lbs, I will by the summer) but general well being and health. Just curious what your protocol would look like?
Ray
Thanks again for the postings and thoughtful reflection. I was bombarded for years with this program and that program that promises to makes this and that happen!!ticks me off to read some of this stuff. Don’t eat grains, potato is bad…blah,blah! Makes no sense. I follow some simple rules. I eat when I’m hungry and I don’t when I’m not. I do not eat what I want either cuz that never works! I don’t eat “breakfast” either and I have not found that my metabolism has slowed.
Thanks for using science to make us think and reason! I look forward to what you have coming next!
Neal
I stumbled across The Shiver System in Wired (Mar 2013). I happened to have a shiver experience that dropped me by 3 lbs in 1 day.
First, some background, In my early 30’s something just turned “off” and I slowly began gaining weight for the last 10 years. No good reason but I did. I was always 115 -118 with a fast metabolism. Always ate sensibly and exercise was more for fun vs. need. Always healthy too. When I hit the upper 127 lbs window I worried. My holistic dr. can’t figure it out & neither can I. A battery of tests, and nothing. I’ve never dieted and when I felt untoned, some exercise with and w/o weights (interval & cardio) did the trick to re-tone. I made a conserted effort to flip my diet to follow the plan that when with a 30 day expercise program that included interval training with and w/o weights and called for a 6day/wk exercise plan. I did this religioulsy and NOT one lb was lost. I was in disbelief. I know I didn’t drink lots of water, but I didn’t have 0 either.
Now, last month (FEB) in New England, a relative had a burst pipe. Burst pipe = freezing temps. I was over there all day into the night assisting the plumber and cleaning. Luckily the water was absorbed by the heavy area rugs in the finished basement and those could be dried or tossed. The rest of the water damage was minimal as what it could have been. Well, the plumber brought a torpedo propane heater and set it up in the garage to heat the basement as we worked on the pipe. Later 2 more pipes slowly gave and those were not so worrysome as there was little water in the pipes to cause much damage, but stress levels clearly spiked over the already higher stress level from the day’s events. I had some layers on and rubber boots. My feet and hands were freezing all day. I shivered a bunch of times thru the day, but the colder I got, the more effort I put into the cleaning. It was about 10a when I got there and didn’t get back until about 9p. I was changing and realized I didn’t weight myself that day. I did and – down 3 lbs. I re-weight the next morning thinking the scale was wrong or I was so tired and cold the night before. I was still 3 lbs down. The 3 lbs came back over the next 2 – 3 days with my same general eating regime. Maddening, but a bit exciting for the 1 day it lasted.
On another note, my office is usually cold most days and we are all notably chilly. But no notable weight loss with this factored in.
Would GREATLY appreciate any insight you may have.
Gah! I’m so confused now. After a lifetime of Trying everything I cut sugar and that worked for a while, then plateau, then severe calorie restriction for 6 months that worked a bit then plateau (I’m good at this, no cheating I plateaued on 800calories/day. Then I tried low carb, and have spent the last 3 months training myself to eat meat and fat.. I have been on keto-paleo for the last two. This also worked for a bit and body comp is much more like how I want it, but again with the plateau. I have had some other great health benefits related to hormonal issues, improved sleep and much more energy/clarity, but since I am not getting the results I want something is still not right. I have been doing the cold thing over the same amount of time with the ‘cool fat burner’ ice vest, soaks in cold baths (no ice) cold showers every morning and recently soaks in the pool reading a book for an hour or so each day.
I am totally motivated to give the potato hack a go, having just read all the blogs and comments on this site, and I think I will be able to come up with a decent real food no fat diet to follow on with, but I am confused about the inflammation thing. You don’t really talk about it, but it seems to be backed up by plenty of science, and paleo results… Won’t starches cause inflammation?
I want to take a guess at the answer, to see if I have grasped what you are getting at… All the demonised grains and legumes dont cause inflammation in and of themselves, but it depends on what makes up our microbiome. if our bacteria are adapted to flesh and exogenous fat fuels, they cant deal with starches and their response to them is the cause of inflammation (heat).
I will take all the measurements and upload them tonight, and start on the potato hack tomorrow, based on your passion for the science, and the n=1s of the blog commenters, and because it does make sense.. Mostly. Just the inflammation issue and the fear that I might end up back where I started with the hormone thing is causing some flutters. I figure its two weeks.. I can reassess then.
So.. nothing but potatoes for 14 days.. rice if i get seriously bored of pootatoes. it really soes seem like the worst kind of crazy fad diet. though, I must admit the idea of saving a bucket of money on meat is appealing… Now to figure out what to do with the 6 litres of coconut oil I just bought!
So today is Day 14. How did it go?
I haven’t had even 1 gram of fat (I eat rice exclusively) for about 2 weeks. I dropped weight super fast for the first week and stalled the second. I always seem to get to between 210-215 quickly and get stuck there. I am about ready to try something else because I am more interested in a better body composition than I am getting down to a certain number on the scale.
Hey Carlos, thanks for checking in with me 🙂 it all went as advertised.. I ate potatoes only mostly cold with salt and nothing else. On day 3 I ate a bowl of brown and wild rice with some soy sauce, and didnt lose weight for the next two days.. So I kept away from rice for the rest of the time. I also broke on day 7 and ate bacon… Because a shoulder injury I had from pre paleo came back and I freaked out. The bacon fixed it (or it went away anyway) and I finished the rest of the 7 days with just potatoes and salt. Hunger diminished, no cravings, plenty of energy etc. sleep got a bit deranged but not terribly so, and it could have been due to other things. It took me a while to get the concept of not eating breakfast through my skull.. Once I did I was very surprised at the results. In total I lost 5kg, which I was very happy with, and am gearing up to do it again, properly this time, with no bacon holidays!
I hope by the time I get to the end of this 2weeks, (starting tomorrow) I will have come up with a good plan for eating because I know I am not ready or strong enough for the all plant thing, but I don’t want to go back to high fat paleo, so I am trying to learn all about PHD between now and then.
About the rice, I suspect it caused me to retain water, since I rarely eat it, and a cup of cooked rice is probably more than I have eaten in one sitting in 10 years. It wasnt hard to not have it, I was just interested in the novelty.. Probably this first round only really counts as a week, but I found the experience very valuable for what it taught me about my relationship with food, as well as my ability to fast without detriment.
Are you finding your body comp is not doing what you want with eating rice? Mine seemed to improve.. Muscles more visible, noticeable difference in waist circumference.. I was quite happy with the results..
Food simply is not this prescriptive. Bacon dies not cure shoulder injuries.
There’s no such thing as physically strong enough for a plant based diet – I assume you mean something along the lines of disciplined enough. I distinctly remember my decision to try this and unlike many that stumble in just two weeks, I committed to 52 weeks minimum – no exceptions or cheating – when I first tried it in 2009. I didn’t go off until I gave slow carb a whirl in early 2011.
I saw none if the medical issues or typical I need meat rationalization. Did I miss it? Sometimes I would get a craving for this or that, but certainly I wouldn’t put it on the level of an alcoholic or smokers level of desperation. I’m amazed at just how deep these drives are and it’s not instinctual drive for essential “nutrient” is, as Atwater proclaimed over 100 years ago, acquired appetite.
Its funny that this potato thing spread so rapidly. It’s a sign that so many approaches aren’t working for people. I don’t think we are as individualistic as we once believed. We’re just a walking mass of genetic probability and our odds are greatly determined by the environment we submit too.
Food is by far the biggest area we control and caloric restriction has demonstrated to be effective on every organism tested. Calorically dense foods don’t get you there.
Ray
Carlos,
There is really no way not to lose when you are eating this way. Don’t forget that 1 pint of water weights 1lbs. Most of you that do any sort of mono diet inevitably try to make up for no fat (food entertainment) with sodium. Remember sugar, fat and salt are the three food buzzes. That can cause water retention issue. You will drop .6-.8 per day – you simply can’t eat enough starch to keep up. There are some other interesting metabolic things happening, but that’s for the future.
Starch isn’t health food, but I put it out there to wreck the whole “protein carbohydrate and fat” nonsense including the idea that somehow high glycemic “carbs” make one fat. They don’t. In fact there is no faster way to lose weight.
Exercise continues to be a problem and it is another myth that I am trying to bust right now. I am not against it, but it certainly isn’t a big bonus to lose weight.
There are no plateaus. There are no plateaus. There are no points where you can achieve thermodynamic equilibrium and maintain body fat on a caloric deficit. None. you cannot photosynthesize.
I suggest you don’t do the starch more than it takes to understand instinctual eating. After that, following an approach like Joel Fuhrman recommends is my advice.
Ray
The salt is probably my problem. Even outside of the 2 week experiments, I have significantly cut fat and sugar out. There are enough choices I like out there that don’t have these in excess so I don’t miss them. I could be more than happy with like less than 20 grams of each per day.
Salt on the other hand seems to be in everything. I’ll start looking out for that more as well.
I stopped the exercising once I heard you say it wasn’t helping with the fat loss. I am eager to drop another 15-20 lbs of fat so I can get back to it.
Ray, I know what you are saying makes sense. It has worked wonders for me before. I may just have to give it a 2 week go without any salt. Doing that with rice sounds like the 9th Circle of Hell. Maybe I could get by with potatoes if I eat the skin.
can you explain how losing weight on a really calorie-deficient diet “wrecks the protein carobhydrate and fat nonsense” ?
Yes, but I won’t yet.
Juggling macronutrients does nothing beneficial for health. The body is much too smart to be tricked and hence we have an increasing epidemic of chronic over-nutrition. Now it’s supported by a blogosphere that’s obsessed with molecular biology.
We add more multi-syllable words to make the story sound even more complex and impressive, because protein carbohydrate and fat became common man’s language. How ridiculous is it to believe that you have to eat the energy storage organ of another animal/plant to use your own evolved and deposited storage organ?
If you don’t eat calories, your body uses fat for most of its energy. How difficult is that idea?
I worked for nearly 10 years directly/indirectly in protein chemistry in late 80s-90s. We’ve utterly failed with molecular biology goals we all envisioned back then. The lock and key analogy of protein chemistry is an over simplification. Today the latest is that we’ll manage health through state equations – a virtual symphony of molecular biology – without first understanding how each string and reed resonates in harmony to create the sound.
Eventually we’ll get there, but right now the health and fitness blogs are a buzz with a bunch of people slinging around fancy words and don’t really have a clue on even simple metabolism of glucose and amino acids.
Perhaps they understand and choose to ignore it to sell goop (powders and pills).
Ray
I’m trying to understand the “salt hypothesis” that you’ve posed above. Is it:
– Carlos may be eating too much salt, and therefore suffering water retention.
– Carlos may be eating too much salt (and or too much rice), and therefore retaining what exactly?
Carlos: do you have any body composition measurements? Circumferences?
I’m trying to understand the “salt hypothesis” that you’ve posed above. Is it:
– Carlos may be eating too much salt, and therefore suffering water retention.
– Carlos may be eating too much salt (and or too much rice), and therefore retaining what exactly?
Carlos: do you have any body composition measurements? Circumferences?
No. He is bored with eating, uses salt to drive taste experience and that increase drives water retention.
In the people that have gone through my guided program (not released to the public and not commented on or detailed here) there’s a point to this exercise beyond weight loss. Weigh loss is automatic as a result. That bent said Ice seen many deal with water retention at pints during 100+ lbs of loss. Whereas the community poo-poos methods that deliver repeated, sustained fat loss over months as water loss (or lean mass loss), I think water retention is far more relevant.
Ray.
just completed another 2 week restriction(boiled potatoes only, no salt) and found the only problems with plateau over two weeks was the introduction of alcohol on the first weekend (which i received a proverbial slap on the wrist for). Com the next Monday morning i started to strip weigh again in lbs.
I lost 10lbs in the 14 days and went from 25% fat to 23% fat, 183lbs to 173lbs with noticeable inch loss especially around my chest and abdominal area.
Wayne
Just looked at your data from yesterday (sorry). Wow – it’s textbook results. Inches lost in all the right places and no measurable lean mass loss – imagine that?
No pills, powders or smoothies.
Good job. Mind if I post this at a later date?
Ray
*blush*
Use it as you need to Ray.
There was a *thing* used (as directed) you tease, or have i caught you snoozing?
Wayne
Ray, I know salt retain water. Fat does not. What about sugar? And do you think not drinking enough water cause water retain too. Right now I am 146 lbs at 5.1 height. I am close to 7-8 % of bodyfat. I can see my upper abs for the first time in my life. But I still have some fat around my lower part of the stomach, and I think it is a water retention or a loosen skin. What can I do about it?
Not sure about sugar, but there’s a recent study linking to diabetes and other illnesses: http://nyti.ms/12cnoOM
If sugar increases the size of fat cells, as I understand, then it seems to me that could be considered water retention.
Your reply to my comment perturbs me..
I think it is awesome and amazing that you did it, clearly you were ready/strong/disciplined enough. I’m glad for you. I know it all sounds like excuses from where you are standing, from your perspective of how easy it was… You are most likely correct. Right where I am this moment, I am not strong. I am self aware enough that I know I wouldn’t stick to it. I hate cooking.. Especially cooking foods I don’t know how to prepare.
I am also willing to accept that bacon doesn’t cure shoulder injuries, and that I was looking for an excuse and a correlation to imply causation. I am willing to defer to your greater knowledge of how the body uses food, and that food addiction can make me justify all kinds of crazy stuff, and that the prospect of not eating meat probably isn’t the reason for my sudden back pain or this deep depressive funk.. Nevertheless, it is something I FEEL.. And regardless of whether it is my brain or my gut flora making me feel it, It feels real to me. Perhaps the depression is hormonal, or related to pain and not related to a deficiency in some amino acid or other nutrient. It could be a coincidence. It probably is. Except what is going on in my brain affects what goes on with my body, and so as interested as I am in what you are learning, I need more knowledge and understanding before I can follow along with the others.
How I incorporate the information you have shared will be on my terms, to the best of my understanding and ability for where I am right now. You have given me a new perspective, and taught me a new way to think about food, and i am very happy to have it… I will still eat meat, but now I am aware of the density of it, I won’t eat it every day, I have gladly embraced the cold, (and it’s awesome for my back). I will introduce your kale and broccoli (etc.) but slowly, and learn to cook them, and learn to like them.. I will do another potato oddessy, because I saw results like nothing I have seen before… I have embraced intermittent fasting.. For the rest… Not today. Not this week, but probably eventually. I’ll wait for more information, but hopefully my half arsed effort still will give you some data perhaps on a middle way, or a less extreme (and necessesarily slower) way – one for those of us too broken to go the whole hog..
Thanks for the information Ray. I haven’t left a comment, but I’m taking it all in.
There is no hope for you. I think that’s the first step to dementia.
Welcome.
🙂
Ray
How do I get in on your training? When do you come out with the Cliff Notes version? I am one who needs direction. I have stopped the more intense exercise and added the contrast showers twice a day and sitting in cold water for 30 minutes several times a week. Evidently I am out eating this because I lost four pounds at first but gained it back before end of second week. Am holding steady now and am thinking of adding in some body weight training and have added gentle walking after meals when I can to keep blood sugars from spiking. Am I on the right track? How do I get to become a client?
[…] the data we collected would not differ significantly from what he knew to be true as I describe in Muscling Your Metabolism (part 1). How do I know? because I repeated it and generated numbers that were very […]
[…] my blog followers. If you are new to the blog, I highly recommend you stop now and go back to the Muscling Your Metabolism posts and work your way though. Once again, it’s respiratory quotient that everyone […]
Excuse my ignorance but what is the protocol one like myself (m,28 yrs old,239lbs)should adhere to if trying to lose body fat ?
Ray,
I’m not sure if this finding on NP hormone would be of interest to your research, since among other things it converts white adipose to BAT. but here’s a summary link if interested:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-heart-hormones-obesity-insulin-resistance.html