© Eric Ford-Holevinski, Used with Permission: www.ericfordh.com/wimhof
“Normal people do not have this [boost in metabolism], because they are simply not trained. Shivering is a pathetic response.”
Now that is an interesting response to a question about being packed in ice for an hour and forty-five minutes. When I first started to study the human thermoregulatory system, I found many links on the internet to the “Iceman. I remember watching a documentary segment about his ability to withstand extreme cold – running a half marathon in shorts and bare feet – 100 miles north of the Arctic Circle at temperatures in single digits.
Obviously in my quest for losing weight using a cool environment, this didn’t seem like a practical approach, but scientist often find discoveries in looking at the extreme. Wim Hof has developed an incredible ability; he’s tapped in the inner thermostat and has the ability to crank up his metabolic rate in situations that would kill the average person in 15-20 minutes.
While there are always uniquely talented Human Beings, genetically predisposed with certain advantages, it seemed to me that these outliers were not completely unique, genetically-speaking, we are all very similar in our basic metabolic structure. Wim insists that we can all learn to do what he does and while we may never reach his extreme level of endurance, what possibilities exist for much milder adaptation?
If a human can survive almost 2 hours packed in ice, can they endure a 68F (20C)office without a space heater or a sweater?
of course.
Here was the interesting part of our conversation – Wim has been documented with many medical tests to generate nearly 3 times the normal human output and don’t think for a moment that this is simply testosterone gone astray.
American swimmer Lynne Cox swam a mile through the massive icebergs of the Antarctic in 2002. Preparing to plunge into the 32F degree water, she was able to increase her core temperature to 102.2 before beginning the swim.
In both of these cases the important part is not to join the polar-bear club and start taking ice baths. It is the realization that you are 98.6F (37C), because your body GENERATES internal heat. The environment is constantly pulling it from your body – isn’t that exactly why your morning coffee gets cold while lost in an email barrage?
Michael Phelps eats an extraordinary amount of calories and I’ll agree he’s extremely physically fit and active, but he also spends a tremendous amount of time in water that is about 80F (26.6C) and that puts a huge drain on his body that wants to be 98.6F. He’s not miserable and he’s burning an enormous amount of calories keeping warm. His extremely low body fat compounds this heat loss and he has to eat more to compensate.
Wim, Lynne, and Michael are not that different from you and I, they’ve just pushed it to the extreme limit. By combining a reasonable diet and exercise program and making very small changes in your everyday life, you too will see your metabolic rate soar and the pounds can slide away with little or no extra effort.
I am starting with the baths along with other things( mainly Tims PAGG stack) and will keep records. I am shivering just thinking about it *smh
look forward to the results! I’d like to eventually post a page that people can use to present data… we need a lot more of it and I am looking into funding to study this in more detail. Any result is a good result as long as the methodology is clearly defined and data accurately recorded.
No wrongs in science…only new ideas.
Ray
I’ve started a blog to track my results. Even have some videos of my cold showers.
http://jeffcahill.blogspot.com/2011/01/slow-carb-diet-and-ice-therapy.html
I’m just starting to learn about his fascinating topic, but I’ve started the ice packs a la 4HB recommendations. Since the brown adipose tissue is in the surface fat (right?), does it generate heat that eventually heats the core, or is it dissipated so quickly that the core temperature is the normal 98.6?
Mike
I am not sure about this side. This is work Tim did for his book. my methods were more related to long term exposure “cooler” temperatures. I’ll add some details as the blog matures, but I have not investigated the role of BAT, nor did any of the peer-reviewed articles I used as the basis for my work. It was strictly environmental exposure over time.
hope that helps. I look forward to your results and I am going to try some of Tim’s methods too….including the icebath. BRRRRRR.
Ray
Your ideas inspire me. I just went for a three mile run in the snow in shorts and a 1 layer tech tee. I’m now planning on being outdoors a lot more this winter. Thanks! -Dan
Great! Face, hands, feet, and ears tend to be most susceptible. Were you comfortable at the end of the run?
Yes, thanks – I did wear ski gloves and a skull cap too 🙂
This morning I drank ice water – I think that was harder than the run.
yes, drink is tough, sip is much easier. I took a 1 gallon milk container, filled it half with water every night, and placed in freezer. In the morning, I would get it out on waking, fill with water and start sipping. Goal was to finish before all the ice melted. First few days involved many trips to the bathroom, then it got much easier.
Ray
Wow. Thanks. I’ll give it a try. How long did it usually take to drink it all?
I would try to sip it all by 11 am, but I get started 4-5 am.
Hi Ray. All I do is take ice out ouf of the freezer and fill up it up in a glass. Then I will take out the filtered Brita pitcher from the refrigerator and fill the glass with water. I will drink about three of these. I don’t know if it’s the recommended 16 ounces that Timothy Ferris recommends or not; I will have to measure it soon by pouring the water out into a measuring cup.
All good. I did it a different way. I filled a 1 gallon milk jug 1/2 way every night and put it in the freezer. When I got up, I filled rest of the way with cold tap water and started sipping. It sat on the bathroom counter while I showered, went to the gym with me and I typically ended my sip-fest by 11 am. The first week or two were mad urinal dashes all the time. Eventually, it wasn’t a big deal. I knew about hyponatremia, and I did not think a gallon a day was a problem. The goal was the last sip should be a tiny chunk of melted ice. This is about -130 calories to warm this water to “pee temperature.” some of that heat comes from waste metabolic heat, so it’s not direct loss. The idea was that the entire load…cold water, cool air, cool shower, cool sleep, cool exercise, and walks…all added up to more exposure for my body.
it worked.
Ray
This is so interesting. Starting in 2007 I basically did the same thing (filled water bottle 1/2 way, froze, then added fresh water) every day at my office and also endured a slightly chilly environment. Over the course of 2 years, I lost 70 pounds. I had originally thought that it was my running that did it, but since I no longer work there, I’ve been completely unable to lose weight (no matter how much I exercise). Discovering you and your research really helped me put some pieces together!
Hi Ray,
Your story is fascinating! But re-reading the 4HB and your blog, I haven’t found any protocols to follow, just the general recommendation to bring your external temperature over 98 degrees. Can you let us know exactly what you did (or would recommend) to achieve weight loss, meaning 20 minutes of swimming in pools 3x/week, 10 minute shiver walks in 51F, etc? I’m not sure what is “enough” cold exposure to make a measurable difference, and it seems like your results were very quick. And I don’t have the guts to try ice baths, so hopefully you’ll suggest gentler options, like swimming in pools?
Thanks!
Mary
Thanks Mary!
There will be more specific recommendations over time. I have not released everything I’ve learned at this point, but intend to do so in time in some forum. Until that time, I would recommend that you try Tim’s Protocol B in the book (I’ll get to swimming). I don’t want people to be miserable and quit. The 4-Hour Body is a great platform to explore alternatives so keep a record of what you do.
Others have posted comments, but I can say for sure that any (and as much) swimming as you can fit in a week will help you get you to your goals MUCH faster. The one IMPORTANT piece of information is that with the boosted caloric burn will come hunger. Don’t give into that temptation. The best success will come from establishing a good nutrition/exercise routine and then adding swimming on top of it. In this way, you will establish what your daily caloric needs/eating patterns are BEFORE you begin to burn the excess calories.
Any swimming/active water exposure is 1) great and 2) excellent for caloric burn. In addition anything you can do to expose your body to reduced ambient air temperature, below the 65F/18C mark, will begin to have an effect. For most people just removing unnecessary layers of clothing will have a significant impact.
Ray
I just wanted to add here that under 65F does definitely work, I’ve been working on slowly losing weight for the past few years. Around Halloween both my folks ended up in the hospital and I slipped a bit into my old coping mechnism (food) since there was candy for Halloween in the house. Got back 10lbs in the process which normally meant it would be almost 2 months before that was gone.
Yet from Nov 1 -> Dec 5 even with thanksgiving related stuff somehow I lost it all, couldn’t figure it out. Well until I was reading 4HB and ran into your chapter. I’m in Michigan and it started getting cold in nov and I decided this year I’d try hkeeping the house cooler and just wearing more clothes to save some heating costs. I’ve always been cold tolerant so cooler for me was 60F in the day and 55F at night.
Well after reading that part of 4HB it all made sense I lost the weight I had gained faster due to the colder house. Well, after that I’ve since left the temp at 55F day and night and I’m dressed for summer. Like I said im pretty cold tolerant do ghis isnt that bad and the results are enough to motivate me to stick with it. I still lost 1lb the past week even though diet wise Xmas was a disaster.
Thanks for clarifying about the swimming a bit. It still leaves questions, though. You mention that “… below the 65F mark, will begin to have an effect.” But the average temperature of a pool is 82F.
Despite the confusion, I’m seriously thinking of joining the local Y and just going swimming. Maybe do the kettle bell swing while I’m at it. Those things are expensive! Could not find a deal anywhere.
WHOA…. 65F (air). For water 80F is fine… below 60F/15C water is hypothermia danger. I am TRYING to get my son to finish a video project we started on the T-handle one from the book. I will see if I can get him to finish this weekend and upload.
Ray
My grandmother is in her late 80’s and lives on a lake in Northern ON, Canada. The lake is somewhat high elevation. In the summer the water temperature I figure peaks at 65. But I would guess usually it runs between 50 and 65 degrees all summer.
She swims everyday for at least half hour. She has a sauna and gets really hot before going in the water.
If she can do it and is an older lady, everybody can do it ! By the way she even had a stroke a few years ago, but that didn’t slow her down.
wow! that is amazing. I have met a lot of people that swim in cold water (I’m not one of them). I think that this is part of what I want to explore more in 2011 as swimming has some other incredible benefits. During submersion, the fluid of your body becomes “buoyant” requiring less effort for the heart to pump (does’t have to lift it from your legs), but at the same time, increased hydrostatic force requires MORE force for respiratory function.
Net result, increased respiratory workout with decreased cardio resistance. Some studies suggest that this can significantly impact endurance.
Generally speaking the older one gets, the more difficult it is to thermoregulate.
Ray
[…] Iceman On December 10, 2010, in Blog, by admin […]
Hi Ray, I just found your site – I ready the 4 hour body and can’t wait to read up through all your posts to hear about your experiences! I look forward to testing some on myself so I can confidently recommend them to my clients who are looking to lose fat.
Susan from http://WorkoutsForHome.com
Ray,
Any thoughts on the best time of day to begin exposure to colder temps?
There is some evidence to suggest early morning workouts help burn fat faster due to lack of readily available carbs (http://www.physorg.com/news194804550.html).
Any thoughts on a pre breakfast swim?
Thanks,
John
I think that it’s a little all the time that works best. The most extensive physiological studies were at 60F/15C and 46F/8C continuous for 3-9 days. At the higher temperatures RMR was 17-20% higher and at the lower temperatures it approached 100% (doubling). The highest rates of increase were measured in the morning at waking, so perhaps that would be multiplied by your workout. I don’t know if it is additive.
I think a pre-breakfast swim is a GREAT idea, BUT you probably have to watch that you don’t overeat because of the stimulation. I am still trying to think about how Tim’s observation of morning protein within 30 mins of waking fits in as well. Perhaps it would be good to also look into a low carb protein source (a couple of egg whites) to see how that does.
keep records. This seems like a great approach.
Ray
Two thoughts:
1. Doesn’t exposure to excess heat also burn calories (sweating, increasing surface blood flow, etc.)? I wouldn’t suppose it would be as great as in response to cold, but doesn’t the homeostasis street go in both directions?
2. Wouldn’t this program be more effective over time? I know you’ve discussed that as you continue to lose fat, your body is less insulated and therefore has to work harder to maintain normal body temperature. In case of the freaks listed above and Navy SEALs (who also train to resist frigid environments) the body’s response is generally a higher than normal spike in temperature, which I assume would also indicate burning more calories than normal. So if one exposes oneself to cold on a more frequent basis, does one eventually expend more energy as one compensates “better?”
Thanks Keith,
I think the confusion with sweat, heat, and caloric burn comes from the traditional exercise-diet paradigm. We eat for fuel and when we exercise to burn the fuel we generate excess heat, sweating to dump that heat. Every metabolic process is basically thermodynamically inefficient meaning that they mostly generate heat. For example, for each 1 unit of energy used to actually move a muscle nearly 4 energy units are used in wasted heat. So muscle energy efficiency is about 20%.
If you read Fasten Your Seat Belts… you will know that two events can be correlated, but it doesn’t always demonstrate a cause and effect. I used the heating the house analogy frequently, but unfortunately, because it costs money to COOL a house, it doesn’t always clear things up.
Since the body is always generating excess heat, body temperature is maintained by this balance between excess heat and the environment around you. As that environment gets warm, there is less and less of an ability to “dump” the extra heat and at some point you start to perspire. Losing water does not burn any significant amount of energy, it’s just dehydration. The blood flow shifts to the skin and the evaporating water cools the body. Seen a different way, you have an internal heater like a house. Do you think it would cost more energy (utility bill) to run that heater in the winter (cold) or in the summer (warm). Of course, in the summer, the unit would never come on, because heat is coming from the excess waste heat of the body AND the environment.
This is where the house analogy breaks down, because in your body, air conditioning doesn’t exist beyond evaporative cooling. So there is a slight rise in metabolic response (beyond exercise) when you sit in a heated environment. That rise has to do with elevated heart rate and heat stress, but it’s not large and no significant thermodynamic energy is consumed. In a COLD environment, the metabolic rise is much larger with increased heart rate, muscle tone, and shivering. All of these functions can add up to a 4.5-5X boost in metabolic rate.
When NAVY seals and Wim Hof conditioning for cold exposure, they are able to suppress the initial metabolic spike and hence the resulting stress, which allows them to more efficiently use the stores of energy within their bodies to produce heat. There is after all a fixed amount of glycogen in the muscle tissue and when all of the short term energy stores are gone, the body has to work harder for less. Best to think of this long term adaptation as similar to Respiration training in a runner. A novice runner is not as efficient and huffs-and-puffs until they are fatigued and exhausted. Distance runners are more efficient.
Long term adaptation seems to be tied to the body’s ability to 1) lower body temperature for more efficiency (less energy/loss) and 2) moderate the metabolic spike that happens in the beginning of the exposure. By not being chronically exposed to lower temperature or training intensely like Wim or a Navy Seal, you will probably not hit either of these plateaus. This is where most of my current research has centered and I think there are definitely steps that can be taken to maximize the loss and minimize the adaptation, but that is for a future post.
Ray
Gotcha, ok. Thanks for the quick and detailed reply. Really interested in the future of the site and excited to see where things go.
Me too. I think that there is far more interest than I anticipated.
I like the cool baths, the faucet water is 59 degrees F. 10#s of ice only lower it 3 degrees, 40#s of ice lowered it to 47 degrees and becomes expensive if you take a lot of baths.
I use a digital meat thermometer.
I have found that my legs feel much better if I warm them in a pelvis down shower after the bath. I wonder if the cold is harder on my legs because they have no fat on them, unlike my torso.
Or, if I let them warm on their own, would they be more likely to build leg muscle.
I also wonder if its a good idea to consume a protein / dextrose post cool bath for uptake into muscle cells.
In the bath I am only cold for the first 30 seconds of shock. After that I move occasionally to keep the cool water on my skin, but it feels good. The one time I did the 47 degree water was not as easy, but ok.
For me, the idea of taking a cold shower seems very hard.
I agree. There seems to be a point that the body reacts and in the literature it’d far warmer than freezing. I think somewhere around 80F/26C is the transition point. For ever degree lower, onset comes faster (not confirmed, but general experience).
The real question is how long this sort of quick shot has on residual BAT.
Thanks for the comments!!
I think 65 degree or below water applies to bath water, not pool water. My cold tape water is about 59 degress F for bath water.
In response to:
Author: Mike H
Comment:
Thanks for clarifying about the swimming a bit. It still leaves questions, though. You mention that “… below the 65F mark, will begin to have an effect.” But the average temperature of a pool is 82F.
Despite the confusion, I’m seriously thinking of joining the local Y and just going swimming. Maybe do the kettle bell swing while I’m at it. Those things are expensive! Could not find a deal anywhere.
Making it clear – pool water is typically 80-84F. That’s enough to have a significant impact. You don’t need colder if you ate swimming. Colder does extract more heat, but it can become miserable.
I think it’s probably one of the best habits to pick up. You can swim until you’re 90. You can swim at a lean 180 or a plump 350. You won’t have knee problems or screw up your back.
The magic happens when you engage your cardiovascular system – heating up the inside and then dump that heat to the water.
Ray
I wonder if Ray could post the dynamic equation for figuring out calories in a 75 degree F pool per hour while swimming. I assume the swimming is about 500 calories per hour. If the example could be posted so I could plug in a different pool or bath temp that would be great.
When you are swimming, the flow of water has to have a thermal effect as opposed to a bath where you build up a laminar layer.
The equation isn’t dependent on flow like air. Water has more heat capacity and 24x more heat transfer rate. No layers other than the vasoconstriction of blood to your skin – keeping heat below adipose tissue. When you move your body shunts heat to the surface to get rid of excess. You just have to bring that heat to the surface and do your very beat to heat that pool! You are a little mobile water heater.
Heat = energy. Fat = stored energy.
Austin has it right kettlebell and swim. It will work.
Ray
Give some away to the pool water.
Ray,
I’ve been following this thread as I have been trying to cold adapt here in Wisconsin. Today I sat outside shirtless in 35F windy sun. After 30 minutes my belly temp was down to 63F and the top of my hands were 45F. I did a light workout and took a 10 minute walk around the neighborhood at the end of the session, still shirtless. I could feel my furnace trying to recover the heat loss for sure. Just called the local Y and they have 2 pools. One is 88F and the other is 80F (the cool pool). I’m going to join and start swimming a couple times a week. What a great idea. 295lbs and formerly type 2 diabetic doing Dr Jacks Leptin reset.
Great site Ray. I have enjoyed getting to know it and I like your writing style.
Fantastic and congratulations!!
Choose the “cool pool”. Now, since you’re not training for the Olympics, I’m going to tell you to do a few things different. First, click on my store link above an go to amazon (I’ll get credit and you won’t pay any more) and get the finis swim snorkel and gloves/fins. If you’re a great swimmer search for one of those drag chutes.
I want you really pushing in the water and don’t care much about technique (please close your ears triathletes). Great Swimming is about technique – the least resistance. Streamline left/right (see 4HB). I want to see you in more resistance. It’s crazy, but the more you suck at swimming, the more calories you burn slogging through the water. In fact I want you to do the equivalent of HIIT in the pool. If its cool in the air – get out frequently and “cool down”
Now the most important two things – swim in the morning after a fast and don’t eat for at least four hours after swim and then have a nutrient dense/calorie poor meal. This will drive fat loss fast. I’ve done it several times. I’m setting up a test now at 70F in my swim spa.
You’ll burn calories (metabolism ramps) when you get in. And if you rest in the water after the swim, it will ramp when the air hits your wet body. All of these little ramps add up.
Great! Record water temperature and air temperature. Download the log sheet at progress link. One more note – get gloves. Hands are a huge feedback loop (as is feet, face and ears) and those send you into “flee” mode causing vasoconstriction. Keep extremities warm so core can dump more heat.
Great to have you on board. 30 lbs. 6 weeks. Let me know if any stumbling blocks crop up. Slugging through the water is more work. That’s where the results come in.
Ray
[…] “cold” when losing weight, because I adapted to cooler temperatures, not cold. I wrote about Wim Hof in a previous post and he represents the extreme in human endurance: 1 hour 46 minutes packed in […]
I have started walking for at least an hour early in the morning when the air temp. is 50F. Wearing shorts and a short sleeve shirt. Will this get me any results in getting my internal furnace going?
Absolutely…Open the doors and windows. Let a little of that fresh air into your sleep. Not only will you sleep MUCH better, but it will boost your metabolism.
Ray
[…] je m’étais adapté à des températures plus fraîches, pas froides. J’ai parlé de Wim Hof dans un précédent post et il représente un extrême de l’endurance humaine : 1 heure 46 […]